What would be your opinion on linking Shoulder Charge to a melee charge? I think that's fair. It isn't a "nerf" so to speak, SC will retain its power, it just removed the ability to spam it. [spoiler]To those who like to say, "You can't spam it, it takes longer and longer to cool down". I wholeheartedly disagree. I played a game this evening and was killed by a shoulder charge. I didn't respawn right away, rather watched for the 10 seconds before it auto-spawned me. The guy leveled me, and hit two more people with it in the 10 second span. [/spoiler]

I'm a Nightstalker most of the time and I'd just like to say that smoke was pretty annoying. Limiting movement speed, disabling jump abilities, making visibility next to zero? Pretty awful. It was like having concentrated Thorn essence available every 30 seconds. Was it fun for the user? Definitely. But I can understand why it was reworked. I still consistently get kills with the smoke and have no complaints in that regard. That being said, the shadestep and Twilight Garrison Nerfs were kind of weird. Especially after Bungie releasing that supposed chart they base their nerfs off of (which is bull) which showed Nightstalkers consistently have a below 1 KD on average. Twilight Garrison i understand was nerfed because it's in the same category as shadestep (evasion), but it had different use and did not need to be hit imo.

You honestly think Bungie balances around the forums, which are probably less than 10% of it's playerbase, and not based on stats? Bungie has said time and time again they want variety and everything to be viable, if people aren't playing a variety of stuff they nerf the stuff everyone is playing to spread out the field more. It's not their fault every kid and their grandma is trying to KDA whore and playing the same "best" junk in every match. It's the communities.

I speak from only recent experience as I deleted my Hunter in the 3rd quarter of year 1 and have only just recreated one in like the last 2 months. I pretty much run Gunslinger in crucible basically because the neutral game is ridonkulously amazing for just shooting people. However I have tried Nightstalker while upgrading the skill tree and got to say that it seems like a support class and the changes simply bring it in line with that. Reason I say that is the super is kinda terrible in PvP, as people say it's casting time is quite long and the damage reduction you receive is not great at all, if you're up in the air to tether then odds are you're gonna get picked off on your way down. Quiver is like a really slow golden gun, blackhole will definitely get you killed if you manage to tether a team. Blood bound seems the only option as kill one and hopefully kill them all is pretty cool on heavy spawn time. I'm not sure it was supposed to originally be as amazing as people used it in the crucible. I agree that shadestep was used too often and while yes you can kill someone within shadestep, there are quite a few frames where the enemy will not take any damage so kinda like blinking through a super used to be broken. Keen scout is amazing in PvP though. Honestly getting geo-synchonous tracking direct to your eyeball just for spotting someone in your peripheral vision is super helpful. Smoke was the most annoying for me. I would have been fine with it if there was a grimoire card explaining that somehow, (and with the Vanguards permission) Hunters had harnessed the smoke of Hive wizards to use for their own purposes. Then gone onto explain how smoke is actually the most powerful substance in the galaxy, especially for it's ability to supress a Guardians jump, magic and damn jetpack to non existence while slowing them down through supreme G-forces and negating the fact that they're wearing a helmet capable of interplanetary travel and space traversal to choke through old school carbon monoxide poisioning.......... Yeah smoke was definitely overpowered as far as melee's go. Also I have to mention Void Spike grenade with the Hunter's ability is awesome now. Have skill in throwing a lightning or tripmine, then this is for you. Anyway in summary, I believe Nightstalker is a PvE class like Defender, but still can be used in crucible for fun and those who are super skilled...... like Defender.

I'll be completely honest, I have been enjoying playing as an aggresive Defender more than anything. People just don't understand that challenging a Defender inside their own Bubble, 9 times out of 10 results in their death.

I encountered a striker last night in midd air. He was decending from a leap passed me, turned in midd air and sholdercharged and killed me!?? How is this even possible? Half my deaths in IB past days are to shouldercharge..

If they nerf the shoulder charge, it'll suck, but the class will not die, it's too fun.

If they hadnt nerfed everything else id say leave them but since a shoulder charging titan doesnt die to a throwing knife to the head its gotta be a nerf. And i am confident it will happen

Have to aim?! Lmao stopped reading there. You in no way have to "aim" shoulder charge. At all.

Jon Weisnewski and Team don't tune abilities and weapons JUST because people bitch and complain. They look at the data. They see what is getting used, how effective it is and how many people use it, and where. They do read the forums and they may look into the data on the complaint, but that doesn't mean they every base their decisions on complaints of X being too OP. They tune for the health of the game. If it gets to a point where Strikers are rolling in at an average K/D of 1.08 and Gunslingers are at 1.01, and Shoulder Charge is the reason for it, then ya, they may down tune Shoulder Charge. An aside: I remember when Shoulder Charge was a Kinetic attack, wasn't even an Arc ability.

Just make shoulder charge not do damage and instead just sent you across the map and if you hit a wall or an object you die because of the impact , or if you got thrown of the map because of it , I'm pretty sure if you did that , nobody would complain .