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#Halo

8/29/2009 8:26:26 PM
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Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

All throughout the Halo trilogy, we have been led to believe there is a connection between the Forerunners and Humanity. For example, Halo can only be fired by a human, 343 Guilty Spark recognises humanity as "Reclaimers," naming the Covenant as 'Meddlers.' The terminals also imply a deep connection. Now, many have speculated that Forerunners are humans, yet more advanced. Some believe that Forerunners adopted us as their heirs. There are a fair few crazy theories out there, most, if not all, basically stating that humans are in some way descended from Forerunners. Now I approach you with a different outlook. What if humanity were not descended from the Forerunners, but what if they were, in fact, the fabled Precursors' last legacy? First, I'll dismiss the argument that 343 Guilty Spark says "You are Forerunner," to John-117 by saying this - Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed. Now I know what you're thinking: "Wolverfrog, you nutter! They can't be precursors, that's impossible!" But is it really? Let's start by taking a look at what the word 'Reclaimer' really means. To recover, to reclaim what was once yours. Now I don't see why the Forerunners would attribute humanity with such a term, it wouldn't make sense if humans are supposed to be the adopted race of the Forerunners. However, assuming hypothetically that humanity are in fact the last remnant of the Precursors, it would make sense. A safe thing to assume would be that Forerunner technology is based off Precursor technology, much in the same way that the Covenant base their technology off the Forerunners. Now if that is the case, then it would make sense that the Forerunners would name the humans 'Reclaimer', to inherit, and regain all that they lost. In the terminals, the Librarian, love of the Didact, refers to Earth as Eden, and a place of wonder. Iris, the Halo 3 ARG, also has a little to say on this. [quote][i]The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. [b]The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries[/b]. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose. If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it. [/i][/quote] Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe? I believe that Earth is a Precursor world, perhaps their home world. At the very height of their power, the precursors were the dominant force throughout the universe. However, due to unknown reasons, they vanished, passing down a mantle to their chosen race to continue their legacy: the Forerunners. However, what if the Precursors had [i]not[/i] been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity. I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the Brutes. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a civil war threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors. In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact. [quote]We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know. [/quote] Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of [i]them[/i]. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors? It's a long shot, but it's an option, one that I believe. I've probably missed out a lot, I shall scourer the terminals again and make necessary edits. Thanks for reading, please voice your opinion. [quote][/quote] [b]Update 1.2[/b] (I had this all neatly typed up, but it got deleted by a posting error. So forgive me if some of this update doesn't make sense, it's late at night and I'm kind of tired.) Reach is situated within the Epsilon Eridani system, a mere 10.5 lightyears from the Sol System, and it's closest neighbouring system. Now, let's go with the idea that Earth was in fact, the Precursor homeworld. Once they had achieved space exploration level, it's likely the first system they would have discovered is the Epsilon Eridani system. The Precursors would have also discovered Reach, and probably inhabited it. Now let's jump to First Strike. Halsey and the Spartans discover a network of what they believe to be 'Forerunner caverns' underneath the ONI CASTLE facility. Inside these ruins, they discover a crystal, which can bend space and time. It seems awfully advanced, even for the Forerunners. Now, what if the Forerunners hadn't built the caverns and crystal, but the Precursors had? I'm not just thinking up random ideas as I go along though. What I find unlikely is that the Forerunners would have discovered Reach, but a few light years away from Earth, and have the time to construct caverns and house a ridiculously advanced crystal within, yet not discover Earth and humanity until a short time before activating Halo. Why would they waste time constructing such a complex when they were faced with extinction? My opinion is that the Precursors built it. Which is why, when Fred 104 touches the glyphs on the complex, he gets a 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling, as if he's seen them before. Genetic instincts perhaps, from humanity's Precursor ancestors? Simply becoming Reclaimers of the Forerunners wouldn't give humanity instinctive knowledge of how their technology works. And if the Forerunners based all their technology off of the Precursors relics they had discovered, it would explain why the Master Chief sub conciously could activate the various devices upon Halo. And, running along with this idea that Reach had been colonised by the Precursors, what if every UNSC Colony world which had mysterious 'Forerunner artefacts' were in fact, also Precursor? Perhaps humanity was merely following in their Precursors ancestors ancient footsteps, as they themselves first ventured into the Galactic beyond. [b]Update 2.0[/b] Oh Lord, this is all too perfect. The first Halo Legends episode, [i]The Babysitter[/i] was released, and it speaks volumes for this theory. The ODSTs have a mission alongside a Spartan to assassinate a Prophet at some unknown alien ruins. Cortez, the ODST squad leader, at some point in the mission briefing says: [quote]"The architecture is not Covenant design and it sure as hell wasn't built by humans. It pre-dates both sides."[/quote] As I was watching this I nodded along and thought, 'Forerunner'. That's what it pointed to right? Perhaps not. Later on when we actually see these ruins, they sure look confusing. It actually looks more like human ancient Japanese design than Forerunner. Naturally, everyone is complaining about it, saying it isn't Forerunner. And perhaps it isn't. Perhaps it is Precursor. Now let's say, back in the day, the Precursors built some structures like that, with that design. They colonise the planet their human descendants (Remember the greater theory) walk upon hundreds of thousands of years later. And they build these ruins. Now what if, in the Haloverse, Japanese building designs were inspired by ancient Precursor blueprints that the ancient Japanese discovered? What if those ruins on the planet in [i]The Babysitter[/i] are in fact meant to look like they do? Not Forerunner ruins, but Precursor. Also, the statues inside the ruins show what seem to be animals usually found on Earth. And who do we theorise do originate from Earth? That's right, the Precursors. If the Forerunners had built the ruins, then surely they would have images of their Gods, not animals. [b]In other words: [/b] - Precursors colonise planet, build ruins we see in [i]The Babysitter.[/i] - Precursors then become humanity after catastrophic event. - Halo is fired by Forerunners. - Precursor remnants (humans) repopulate Earth. - Ancient Japanese discover incredibly old Precursor building blueprints, design their buildings in the same way. - ODST squad and Spartan in [i]The Babysitter[/i] discover these ancient ruins, Halo fans cry out "But they're not Forerunner!" - Because they aren't. They're Precursor. [b]Last minute input: [/b][url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18391672&postcount=243]Oh my God, Frankie just practically confirmed this section of the theory![/url] [Edited on 11.07.2009 3:54 PM PST]

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  • Holy. Crap. That makes perfect sense.

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  • When ONI was studiing the flood near instilation 04 after it had been destroyed a scientist aboard the UNSC Mona Lisa claimed the flood were a biological weapon. The forerunners discovered the flood, and never claimed that they were a biological weapon. If the flood are a biological weapon who could have possibly created them? I think that the precursors created the flood as a biological weapon. The flood got out of control and pushed the precursors into hiding. Then your theory comes into play. Just like the time Fred 104 felt like he knew about the artifact on reach. [quote] Which is why, when Fred 104 touches the glyphs on the complex, he gets a 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling, as if he's seen them before. [/quote] I think the scientist had this same feeling when he said that the flood were a biological weapon. Like he had seen the flood before. The fact that the flood are a biological weapon was in his genes. Only something that humans know, and only something that the precursors knew. This could also explain why the forerunner kept speciments of the flood instead of completley executing their extinction. Since the forerunner favored everything that had to do with the precursers they kept the flood around in stasis on the rings. Anyways I'm getting aheaad of myself.

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  • Good theory. Really good. Won't say I believe it 100%, but then again, I do that with real life stuff. Don't ever believe it 100%, but don't ever disbelieve it 100% either. I'll keep those other theories, and the original theories I thought up in mind. But now I have this new and awesome one to think about too. That's what makes me love stories and games like this.

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  • yes scientists of the covenant are lazy because they copy all the forerunner technology

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  • [url=http://bungieaerospace.com/]NOS ES TOTUS PRODROMUS TAMEN UNUS[/url]

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  • To much Reading.

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  • What killed the forerunners.

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  • if what the OP says is true, then the scientists of the covenant (as we know) but also the forerunner races were really really lazy, and just copied off everyone *shrugs shoulders*

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  • I approve of this thread

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    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] steadman How many different looks can ancient ruins have?[/quote] There are all sorts of different looks for ancient ruins. Look at Earth, we have all sorts of ruins, from the pyramids to Stonehenge. That is just for one species on one planet. There would be all sorts of ruins throughout the galaxy, from the forerunners, the precursors, the covenant species, and any others we don't know about.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J The ruins from the babysitter look a lot like those found on [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUqeOMen-Xo]Delta halo[/url]. If those ruins where presecutor, how would they end up on a halo made by forerunners?[/quote] They don't really look all that similar at all.[/quote] Maybe a slight resemblance. [url]http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4307/45157230.jpg[/url][/quote] How many different looks can ancient ruins have?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J The ruins from the babysitter look a lot like those found on [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUqeOMen-Xo]Delta halo[/url]. If those ruins where presecutor, how would they end up on a halo made by forerunners?[/quote] They don't really look all that similar at all.[/quote] Maybe a slight resemblance. [url]http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4307/45157230.jpg[/url][/quote] Perhaps a little. Although maybe the Forerunners were inspired by Precursor architecture.

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    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J The ruins from the babysitter look a lot like those found on [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUqeOMen-Xo]Delta halo[/url]. If those ruins where presecutor, how would they end up on a halo made by forerunners?[/quote] If the forerunners can build worlds, then they can move buildings.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J The ruins from the babysitter look a lot like those found on [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUqeOMen-Xo]Delta halo[/url]. If those ruins where presecutor, how would they end up on a halo made by forerunners?[/quote] They don't really look all that similar at all.[/quote] Maybe a slight resemblance. [url]http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4307/45157230.jpg[/url]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0FFman J The ruins from the babysitter look a lot like those found on [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUqeOMen-Xo]Delta halo[/url]. If those ruins where presecutor, how would they end up on a halo made by forerunners?[/quote] They don't really look all that similar at all.

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  • The ruins from the babysitter look a lot like those found on [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUqeOMen-Xo]Delta halo[/url]. If those ruins where presecutor, how would they end up on a halo made by forerunners?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GhostOfOnyx117 i would just like to add something. it says the Precursors were trans sentient beings, and passed down the Mantle to the Forerunners. and you have to take actual history into account. around the time of the Precursors, what was of humanity? cavemen? when it shows the Forerunners building the Portal on earth in Origins II, it shows early evolved humans. now, i will admit there might have been an addition to our universe by Bungie, in which a more evolved Human race existed before neanderthals, however, take into account the Earths formation. before Humans, large, pre-evolved creatures roamed the earth, and before that, the earth was just a half volvanic/half amonia micro organism planet. for the Human race to evolve within that timeframe will label them something close to Precursors, however, thats IF they can actually evolve. i share some views on your theory, and i think it makes very great points, however, no one can be too sure about anything beyond what the terminals dictate. im sure Bungie made it for us to imagine. oh, and i agree, why arent you a Mythic member yet???[/quote] Well, we don't know how old the Precursors were. It could have been millions of years before the Forerunners entered the scene when the Precursors became humanity. History isn't known for certain; all we have is the fossil record, which is hardly definite, conclusive evidence. This theory requires that you be open minded.

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  • 1) This is why halo will always be the best game ever, the halo-universe, there are so many thoerys about halo that consprices about real life stuff seems stupid and small, i mean with AR, cryptic messages, and a whole bunch of crap bungie do for thier community, no wonder halo's fan-base is so darn big. 2) I think everyone's had would simultaniusly explode if the precursors moved to the other galaxy's and got engulfed by the flood. i mean i'd eat my own head if it turnt out the prcursors were the flood. 3) I don't understand the forerunners facination with us, if we are reclaimers, is that why the portal to the ark was on our doorstep? Also i love your thoerys, although the "Gorden freman is master chief" is always my fav one also sorry if i'm talking out my rear-end i don't really know that much about the halo uiverse, at least compared to you lot.

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  • i would just like to add something. it says the Precursors were trans sentient beings, and passed down the Mantle to the Forerunners. and you have to take actual history into account. around the time of the Precursors, what was of humanity? cavemen? when it shows the Forerunners building the Portal on earth in Origins II, it shows early evolved humans. now, i will admit there might have been an addition to our universe by Bungie, in which a more evolved Human race existed before neanderthals, however, take into account the Earths formation. before Humans, large, pre-evolved creatures roamed the earth, and before that, the earth was just a half volvanic/half amonia micro organism planet. for the Human race to evolve within that timeframe will label them something close to Precursors, however, thats IF they can actually evolve. i share some views on your theory, and i think it makes very great points, however, no one can be too sure about anything beyond what the terminals dictate. im sure Bungie made it for us to imagine. oh, and i agree, why arent you a Mythic member yet???

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  • I love your idea, i was thinking too about the flood like the reaper. Other thing that could happen is that the precursor vanish entirely living the forerunner and when the forerunner were to clone us the flood attack but then they use the halos and destroy everything, when we finally get clone by all the sentinels we don't remember anything of our past.

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  • Holy -blam!- man, that blew my mind, like your fic's do on ff.net.

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    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b]collie2553 [/quote] This seems plausible, and it is supported by the way the forerunners first encountered the flood, by finding it on a planet, similar to the way the Humans first discovered the Flood (First on the unnamed planet in Halo Wars, and again on the Halo rings). The only problem that I can think of is the extra-galactic origin of the Flood, making it seem that there is a beginning to the Flood's existence in our galaxy, so at some point they must have become a new part of this cycle, as an unnatural addition. And for people who think that Humans are Forerunners, you forget that a tribesman named N'chala witnessed the forerunners building the portal to the Ark. And on the relation between Humans and Precursors, I think that the Precursors created the Forerunners to inherit the Mantle from them, and created Humanity to take up the mantle in case the Forerunners failed. The way that the Precursors had Humanity develop later than the Forerunners was that the Precursors left Humanity in an earlier stage in it's development cycle, and left it to evolve naturally. Since the Precursors wanted to minimize the chance of Humanity failing to be able to inherit the Mantle for some unforeseen reason. To minimize this risk the Precursors evolved several other species and left them in different parts of the galaxy as backup. Some of these species may have been the Species found in the Covenant. This would explain the fact that all species use DNA (Think about it, if everything evolved completely separately, what are the chances that these creatures would all use DNA?). It would also explain the similarities between the different species. Note how many covenant species are bipedal, have two eyes, and two arms with hands with fingers and thumbs. [Edited on 05.11.2010 5:14 PM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Slim Jimmy 12 I would have to go with the humans being more Foreunner descent. Proof: As you start the level Cortana in Halo 3 the Gravemind will say 'child of my enemy, "why have you come?' Humans being childs of Forerunners. Forerunners being enemy of the flood/Gravemind.[/quote] No one said that the Flood wiped out the Precursors also. [Another theory] Assuming the Precursors were forced to extinction by the Flood, perhaps a galactic release of Flood marks the end of any species that have acquired the Mantle...and the beginning of a new one. Like a cycle. Why I think this way because so many things in nature go in revolutions. Earth, the physical planet, goes in a cycle. North America and Europe/Africa are slowly moving apart from each other, allowing the magma from inside the earth to rise up and eventually, recycle the crust. A very long time* later, the crust will be back in it's near original form (nothing is ever exact) and life will restart. This cycle theory also applies to ALL organisms. Birth > Developing organism > Adult (reproduces at this time) > Death. Sure, some die before reproductive age, but natural selection deals with that. This organism cycle will keep going because of the children that were created. Getting back on track. If so many things on Earth go in a cycle, why not the galaxy as a whole? The cycle wouldn't be radically different: BEGINNING (not in a cycle yet) Creation of original organisms in the universe Cycle: Now that the basic establishment of organisms have been made...: One, intelligent race takes control over universe > The intelligent race goes into a long peace for some time ( near-utopia) > Flood is introduced > The race gets nearly wiped out > The race chooses the next fittest race to lead after they are gone (Mantle is passed down) > Intelligent race gets wiped out > Flood somehow "leaves" for the next cycle > BEGIN CYCLE AGAIN. The cycle does seem like the Forerunner > Human theory, but I'm basing it upon cycles (from my knowledge in Biology) and a guess. Any flaws?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] conrad graf very good thought about the reclaimer thing. the forerunners wouldn't call humans themselves reclaimers if they were in power and had nothing to reclaim, they would call the precursors(humans) reclaimers because they needed to reclaim what was once theirs. [/quote] Not true! In the book The Flood Master Chief finds a dead marine in the Library, and 343 Guilty Spark says something about him also being a reclaimer who didn't make it. Any old human is a Reclaimer. The Luminary in Contact Harvest is proof also.

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  • very good thought about the reclaimer thing. the forerunners wouldn't call humans themselves reclaimers if they were in power and had nothing to reclaim, they would call the precursors(humans) reclaimers because they needed to reclaim what was once theirs.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ImmortalJoshua didn't a Onyx sentinal state that the S-III was a "sub-species" and decided it wasn't a reclaimer? Or is this a reference that Spartan-IIs are reclaimers and S-IIIs are more of a "sub-species" of S-IIs. I'm most likely wrong[/quote] I believe it was because Ash (like every S-III) had artificial augmentations, most notably an illegal drug designed to affect the brain's frontal lobe to enhance combat. I reckon this was enough for the Sentinel to recognise it as a [i]"sub-species"[/i], even though they aren't.

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