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Edited by Cortana Five: 9/16/2014 11:45:21 PM
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THE NEW IP Bungie Formula:Durandal, Cortana, Joyeuse?

***Long friggin' post alert!*** [u]THIS IS A REVISED VERSION![/u] [quote][u]PLEASE FAVORITE THIS THREAD FOR FURTHER UPDATES![/u][/quote] The vast majority of my edits are due to [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715&postRepeater1-p=8#41730446]Ender's post here[/url] among others. I will cite him as much as possible in here. [quote]"My name is Cortana, of the same steel and temper as Joyeuse and Durendal."[/quote] [b]Reader's Digest Version-ish[/b] This quote is the focus of my theory for a "formula" for Bungie trilogies. The quote above speaks of three famous swords that had once come together in battle. The three swords seem to correspond with two of the AIs from Marathon (Durandal) and Halo (Cortana). The third sword, Joyeuse, is the mystery AI and holder. If the first two swords can be proven to purposely correspond with the game characters, then perhaps Joyeuse and its holder (Charlemagne) is what the new IP's characters will be like. This theory also ties into several other theories. But in order to connect them while making sense, I must explain how and why the AIs and their swords correspond. As you read, keep [url=http://marathongame.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]Pfhorpedia[/url] handy if you're not in tune with the Marathon universe. While we're at it, [url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]this[/url] and [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/]this[/url] may come in handy. IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THE MARATHON TRILOGY YOURSELF: Download the games through [url=http://source.bungie.org/index.php?title=Get_Marathon]Aleph One[/url]. We'll be talking a lot of Marathon in here, my friends. So to set the mood: ***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START*** ***TRANSPORT WHEN READY*** Dear reader, This is going to be a huge post. A [i]good[/i] post, but a long one. I mean, this [i]will[/i] take several slots to cover. So, grab a nice cup of coffee and a pair of reading glasses or something that will keep you awake and in your chair. Until the coffee passes though. [b]I will also ask you to take this thing with a pinch of salt[/b]. I don't know if this is the truth in its entirety, and you probably don't either. Unless you're someone like Joe Staten or Jason Jones who's [i]really[/i] bored on a coffee break and stumbled upon this thing. Then, of course, you'd know if this is dumb speculation or not. Wishful thinking, right? [u]Please, please, please!!![/u] Give me feedback on this, tell me about anything you may dig up on this stuff, and if any of my facts/lore/spelling/[b]grammer[/b]/bad jokes/historical events are incorrect. ***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START*** ***TRANSPORT WHEN READY*** [quote]Durandal-Durendal (Endurance- True definition unknown)*[/quote] *The name probably comes from the French verb "durer", "to endure". [u]Sword Info:[/u] In The Song of Roland, the sword is said to contain within its golden hilt one tooth of Saint Peter, blood of Saint Basil, hair of Saint Denis, and a piece of the raiment of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In the poem, *[i]Roland attempts to break Durendal by smiting it against a marble block ten times. This proves fruitless. The myth of him creating La Brèche is merely a folktale of the land. It is not stated as such in La Chanson de Roland (The Song of Roland).[/i] According to Ludovico Ariosto's Orlando Furioso it once belonged to Hector of Troy, and was given to Roland by Maugris. *[i]Orlando Furioso is a work created centuries after La Chanson do Roland. In La Chanson, it is made clear that Charlemagne was given instructions by the angel Gabriel to let Roland wield Durendal.[/i] By Ender. In [i]Marathon[/i], Durandal [u]told the player[/u] that he did not want to suffer the same fate as Leela, so he asked to be destroyed.* The player finds out that Durandal was not actually destroyed, just as Roland couldn't destroy the sword. (Note that the fate of Leela turned out to be completely different and that Durandal didn't actually want to be destroyed. He was loopy and rampant.) *[i]Please note that Durandal's request to be destroyed was part of a plot of his own, and not an honest request and that Leela was not actually destroyed either.[/i] [b]Holders:[/b] Hector of Troy and Count Roland Note: [i]MRN54 [url=http://www.marathon.org/story/mjolnir.html]may or may not be you[/url].[/i] [u]Hector of Troy & Mjolnir Recon Number 54[/u] (Not the forum ninja) Hector was a Trojan prince and the greatest fighter of Troy in the Trojan War and the son of Priam and Hecuba, a descendant of Dardanus (son of Zeus and Electra). Because Hector was a descendant of several gods, he would in theory be a hybrid of sorts. The parallel here is that MRN54 [i]is[/i] a cyborg and a fighter. From Marathon.Bungie.Org: [quote] There are those references to your physical ability: [i]You slam your fist in frustration onto the control panel[/i](Manual page 2) Whether this is of significance or not depends largely on what material the control panel is made of. We have no information on this. [i]It's funny, but you've always been the colony's trouble shooter. You're bigger and stronger, and a better shot. In games, you always scored the most points and looked the hero. (Manual page 2)[/i] [/quote]. [quote] Alas! the gods have lured me on to my destruction. ... death is now indeed exceedingly near at hand and there is no way out of it- for so Zeus and his son Apollo the far-darter have willed it, though heretofore they have been ever ready to protect me.} My doom has come upon me; let me not then die ingloriously and without a struggle, but let me first do some great thing that shall be told among men hereafter." -Spoken by Hector facing Achilles, after a missed spear-throw, The Iliad Book XXII Lines 299-305.[/quote] This quote could represent the AIs in the trilogy toying and luring the player towards his destruction or towards their will. The AIs had protected the player for their plans, and in a sense, the player was doomed to what they had in store for him. [u]Count Roland & MRN54:[/u] The tale of Roland's death is retold in the eleventh century poem [i]The Song of Roland[/i], where he is equipped with an unbreakable sword, enchanted by various Christian relics, named Durendal. As said earlier, Roland couldn't break the sword, just as MRN54 couldn't break Durandal throughout the trilogy. Orlando Furiouso (among other works) includes Roland's battle with a Saracen giant named Ferracutus who is only vulnerable at his navel. The W'rkncacnter; a being(s) seemingly indestructible may have been a reference to Ferractus. The Sacren's navel may have been represented by activating a Jjaro station to trap the W'rkncacnter. [quote] [i]To stop the Pfhor from their folly and our demise, you must activate the ancient station that Yrro used eons ago to trap the W'rkncacnter. If we can activate it in time, it will crush the Pfhor fleet before we're all destroyed.[/i] *You Think You're Big Time? You're Gonna Die Big Time! (Terminal 1)*[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ender If we restrict our view to the first Marathon game, it is more likely that the Ferracutus analogy is to The Pfhor. They are larger in numbers, more technologically advanced, and ready to squash us. We, however, find that they rely heavily on the S'pht slaves they captured. Durandal instructs us to free them and we do so, allowing a rebellion to unfold, crushing the Pfhor attack.[/quote] At last, a confirmation (one of many) of the connection between Roland's sword and your well behaved AI (Yes, that was sarcasm): The first terminal on Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! relates the tale of Count Roland, who near death, attempts to break his sword to prevent it from being taken by the Saracens. [quote][i]Count Roland smites upon the marble stone; I cannot tell you how he hewed it and smote; Yet the blade breaks not nor splinters, though it groans; Upward to heaven it rebounds from the blow. When the count sees it never will be broke, Then to himself right softly he makes moan; 'Ah, Durandal, fair, hallowed, and devote, What store of relics lies in thy hilt of gold!' -From The Song of Roland (Translated by Dorothy Sayers, Viking Penguin, NY, NY, 1957)[/i] *Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! (Terminal 1)*[/quote] [u]Roland and Charlemagne references by Durandal:[/u] -[url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/sphtkr.html#Feel%20the%20Noise]Feel the noise[/url] -[url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/roland.html]Roland[/url] By gathering this information, I can say with confidence that Durandal is [i]defiantly[/i] the spitting AI image of the sword Durendal, and that it's holders Roland and Hector are the inspiration for MRN54's situation involving the AIs in Marathon; specifically Durandal. ***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START*** ***TRANSPORT WHEN READY** [Edited on 02.12.2011 1:12 PM PST]

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  • I'm ashamed to admit it but I really want to see these Cortana Letters. Ya I know, I suck for not knowing about them, rub it in.

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  • Very good and LONG read. And I must say, was quite worth my time. Nicely written and highly educational for those with the attention span to read. I feel edumacated nao.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JobeTheConqueror The only certainty I will get behind in this topic is that the next IP will more than certainly have an AI or AIs as a key story element. I just can't get behind all the references to French epic poetry. It is, however, researched very well. This type of community involvement makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. No sarcasm. An AI named Joyeuse, I could see. Borrowing cool names from mythology and slappin' em on awesome sci fi is pretty much Bungie's thing. The entire IP story linkage and selection process being based on this? Doubtful.[/quote]Awwh! Thanks! I understand why you can't get behind the whole French poetry thing, but I felt that it was worth going that deep. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Phoenix9508 Really enjoyable read. Something tells me that if 343 sat down with Bungie and had a long talk on this things may turn out. This is like one of those games that strived to be epic but could never be, but since the company is already so well renowned it's like impossible for them to not get their way. Thus, happy end.[/quote]I don't think talking with 343 would be necessary in the least. Bungie is capable of continuing this tread with a new IP with Microsoft being none the wiser. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeathBringer669 Nice post Cortana! And thanks btw, you inspired me to do some more searching on my most recent theory I'm working on, and I found some great new info.[/quote]Awesome! I'd love to see how it turns out!

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  • Nice post Cortana! And thanks btw, you inspired me to do some more searching on my most recent theory I'm working on, and I found some great new info.

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  • Really enjoyable read. Something tells me that if 343 sat down with Bungie and had a long talk on this things may turn out. This is like one of those games that strived to be epic but could never be, but since the company is already so well renowned it's like impossible for them to not get their way. Thus, happy end.

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  • The only certainty I will get behind in this topic is that the next IP will more than certainly have an AI or AIs as a key story element. I just can't get behind all the references to French epic poetry. It is, however, researched very well. This type of community involvement makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. No sarcasm. An AI named Joyeuse, I could see. Borrowing cool names from mythology and slappin' em on awesome sci fi is pretty much Bungie's thing. The entire IP story linkage and selection process being based on this? Doubtful.

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  • 3 is the poor mans 7.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn I also found a post back in 2006 from [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=9034496&postRepeater1-p=1#9042726]Ender[/url] that refers to "Sauvagine" as "Sauvagins" if that helps.[/quote]Ah, that makes more sense now! About Ender's post: I'm intrigued about the three brothers who made the sword. Perhaps each brother could help represent the AI's maker? Perhaps that's far too off the subject or just blown out of proportion, but it would be cool to see if Ansias has anything to do with his, and perhaps if Strong-i'-the-Arm does too. [quote]Ansias The three swords made by this cutler were Baptism , Florence, and Graban, all made for Strong-i'-the-Arm.[/quote]

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  • You know what took 3 years to make? Halo:Reach. Just a thought. Also, is Sauvagine in the Song of Roland? [Edited on 02.14.2010 3:44 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote]James Lanfear writes: Just reading the responses to the Cortana message and I was struck by something. Both the inscription on the sword and the story of who created it say that it was one of a set of three--either with Joyeuse and Durindana or Durandal and Sauvagine... Tycho and Leela? Or perhaps two new AIs?[/quote]Although, I think that was mentioned before. But WTF is Sauvagine?[/quote] Yes, I mentioned this previously, making a big fuss out of the fact that someone else mentioned "two new AIs". I'm doing a bit of research now and the closest links I've been getting regarding "Sauvagine" is that it is most-definitely French. It's a [url=http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauvagine]French word for a particular type of bird[/url] that we call the "Windfowl". Rough Babelfish translation of the Wiki Page (with alterations by me, because [i]damn[/i]: [quote][b]Wildfowl[/b] The wildfowl is a term used in French to indicate certain wild water birds, such as duck, swan, goose, etc. Of many species are regarded as small waterfowl. This term derives from "savage". It also defines the odor and the taste characteristics of this bird. The hunters of these birds are qualified "sauvaginiers". In Canada, this category includes/understands as the bustard as the barnacle of Canada is called. [<-lol] Certain associations, in particular Anglo-Saxon, specialized in the protection of the wetlands and the wildfowls like Ducks Unlimited (Unlimited Ducks), Wetlands International, Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust.[/quote] So it is certainly a word, that we would refer to as "Windfowl". But that's all mostly irrelevant: [quote][url=http://www.bartelby.net/81/16144.html][link][/url] MUNIFICAN. The three swords made by this cutler were [u]Durandal[/u], for Roland; [u]Sauvagine[/u] and [u]Courtain[/u] for Ogier the Dane. ... [i]An alphabetical list of the famous swords:-[/i] [I've extracted ours] [u]Courtain[/u] (the short sword), one of the swords of Ogier the Dane, which took Munifican [u]three years[/u] to make. [u]Durandal[/u], same as [u]Durandan[/u]. Roland's sword, which took Munifican [u]three years[/u] to make. [u]Durandan[/u] or [u]Durandana[/u] (the inflexible), Orlando's sword. [u]Fusberta Joysa[/u], another name for [i]Joyeuse[/i] (q.v.). [u]Joyeuse[/u] (2 syl., joyous), one of Charlemagne's swords, which took Gallas [u]three years[/u] to make. [u]Sauvagine[/u] (3 syl., the relentless), one of the swords of Ogier the Dane, which took Munifican [u]three years[/u] to make.[/quote] There's a bunch of other swords there (and a lot more that took 3 years to make), so for viewing pleasure, here's a [url=http://life-us.blogspot.com/2007/12/famous-swords.html]simplifed list of those "famous swords"[/url]. I don't know why they were being specifically interested in Sauvagine, because there's a bunch of other swords that are more/as interesting But there you have it, that's what Sauvagine is. I also found a post back in 2006 from [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=9034496&postRepeater1-p=1#9042726]Ender[/url] that refers to "Sauvagine" as "Sauvagins" if that helps. [Edited on 02.13.2010 10:03 AM PST]

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  • Kind of an update for anyone who's still paying attention to the thread: While I was looking up stuff in the Cortana letters as a follow up to Recon's post, I stumbled upon something interesting in the discussion. [quote]The following is taken from The Dictionary of Phrase and Fable by E. Cobham Brewer from the new and enlarged edition of 1894: Ansias, Galas, and Munifican made three swords each, and each sword took three years a-making.[/quote]This kind of reminded me of the whole "trilogy" thing. Three IPs, three games per universe. Perhaps I'm analyzing too much, but it seemed to fit. Also... [quote]James Lanfear writes: Just reading the responses to the Cortana message and I was struck by something. Both the inscription on the sword and the story of who created it say that it was one of a set of three--either with Joyeuse and Durindana or Durandal and Sauvagine... Tycho and Leela? Or perhaps two new AIs?[/quote]Although, I think that was mentioned before. But WTF is Sauvagine?

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  • 0
    * sits reading in awe than stands up and claps while the rest of the office looks on.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn I've read the Halo terminals countlessly and don't ever remember anything similar or related to "Durandal", "Cortana" or Joyeuse?[/quote] If memory serves the reference to Ogier the Dane was back when the Cortana Letters were generating a pre-ARG buzz throughout the Marathon community. I do not believe that there was anything direct quote or link made in-game (Halo) along those lines (though there was the shield/sword line). Though in Marathon, Durandal did make references to Charlemagne being a fruitcake by referring to him or his namesake (Durandal) in the feminine form.[/quote]I know that it's discussed on the [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/cortana.html]page[/url], but I don't see it anywhere in the letters themselves. I'll go through them some more to see if I can find anything in the letters themselves.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn I've read the Halo terminals countlessly and don't ever remember anything similar or related to "Durandal", "Cortana" or Joyeuse?[/quote] If memory serves the reference to Ogier the Dane was back when the Cortana Letters were generating a pre-ARG buzz throughout the Marathon community. I do not believe that there was anything direct quote or link made in-game (Halo) along those lines (though there was the shield/sword line). Though in Marathon, Durandal did make references to Charlemagne being a fruitcake by referring to him or his namesake (Durandal) in the feminine form. [Edited on 02.09.2010 7:02 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 I could have sworn Robt McLees had written it. Perhaps it was a team effort?[/quote]Well, in an interview for 343 I watched, Frankie mentioned that he had worked on the Halo Terminals whilst he was at Bungie. Obviously that doesn't mean he did all of it, but still.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xLAS3RP01NT3Rx [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Crucio Lmao, Master Chief never praises Cortana! Or Does he? I don't remember him doing it.[/quote]I don't think he does. Well, he said her name a couple times, I guess that might count. :P *serious face* Do the terminals/Cortana bits in Halo 3 have anything in them that might pertain to this?[/quote]I don't believe they do. I think this is a context-sensitive topic. Not only that, but Frankie wrote the content for the Halo 3 Terminals; I think that he may have only been aware of the content within Halo alone and not the bigger picture. I've read the Halo terminals countlessly and don't ever remember anything similar or related to "Durandal", "Cortana" or Joyeuse?[/quote]I could have sworn Robt McLees had written it. Perhaps it was a team effort?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xLAS3RP01NT3Rx [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Crucio Lmao, Master Chief never praises Cortana! Or Does he? I don't remember him doing it.[/quote]I don't think he does. Well, he said her name a couple times, I guess that might count. :P *serious face* Do the terminals/Cortana bits in Halo 3 have anything in them that might pertain to this?[/quote]I don't believe they do. I think this is a context-sensitive topic. Not only that, but Frankie wrote the content for the Halo 3 Terminals; I think that he may have only been aware of the content within Halo alone and not the bigger picture. I've read the Halo terminals countlessly and don't ever remember anything similar or related to "Durandal", "Cortana" or Joyeuse?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Crucio Lmao, Master Chief never praises Cortana! Or Does he? I don't remember him doing it.[/quote]I don't think he does. Well, he said her name a couple times, I guess that might count. :P *serious face* Do the terminals/Cortana bits in Halo 3 have anything in them that might pertain to this?

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  • Lmao, Master Chief never praises Cortana! Or Does he? I don't remember him doing it. [Edited on 02.08.2010 5:42 PM PST]

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  • OMG!Great job Cortana.

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  • All you people are crazy... digging into this research stuff and what not ... *returns to studying the universe and writing*

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  • I think you have quite an interesting idea there, C5. It looks to me like Bungie is clearly following this pattern and that you may very well be right.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xLAS3RP01NT3Rx [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Access 240 In all seriousness, you must have pried [i]something[/i] from urk during a drinking session... Something embarrassing, perhaps?[/quote]Oh, he shared a secret with me. So secret, in fact that I didn't believe him at first, or twice even. I swore to never repeat it. To cut a long, cryptic, unrelated-to-thread story short, it was regarding a certain bond that ties us both together. Not on a Brokeback Mountain level, but definitely something deep nonetheless. Besides, the only important thing that went down at that drinking session was this; [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUEkTnQXcEQ]urk with front-seat tickets[/url]. Anyway guys, until an Employee does post something amusingly cryptic somewhere regarding this topic, I think we've exhausted our community abilities.[/quote]Yeah, just about. Nothing more to say, is there? Now we wait. I'm not very good at this.[/quote] *Insert hilariously generic PAX joke here* HAHA, look guys am I cool yet!?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Access 240 In all seriousness, you must have pried [i]something[/i] from urk during a drinking session... Something embarrassing, perhaps?[/quote]Oh, he shared a secret with me. So secret, in fact that I didn't believe him at first, or twice even. I swore to never repeat it. To cut a long, cryptic, unrelated-to-thread story short, it was regarding a certain bond that ties us both together. Not on a Brokeback Mountain level, but definitely something deep nonetheless. Besides, the only important thing that went down at that drinking session was this; [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUEkTnQXcEQ]urk with front-seat tickets[/url]. Anyway guys, until an Employee does post something amusingly cryptic somewhere regarding this topic, I think we've exhausted our community abilities.[/quote]Yeah, just about. Nothing more to say, is there? Now we wait. I'm not very good at this.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Access 240 In all seriousness, you must have pried [i]something[/i] from urk during a drinking session... Something embarrassing, perhaps?[/quote]Oh, he shared a secret with me. So secret, in fact that I didn't believe him at first, or twice even. I swore to never repeat it. To cut a long, cryptic, unrelated-to-thread story short, it was regarding a certain bond that ties us both together. Not on a Brokeback Mountain level, but definitely something deep nonetheless. Besides, the only important thing that went down at that drinking session was this; [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUEkTnQXcEQ]urk with front-seat tickets[/url]. Anyway guys, until an Employee does post something amusingly cryptic somewhere regarding this topic, I think we've exhausted our community abilities.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] urk Great theory, guys![/quote] Oh crap. He said "theory", instead of "theorem!" Now I don't know whether this is a case of semantics and that we are right, or whether he's teasing us whilst stating that we're wrong![/quote] Heh. That is [i]so[/i] Sonic. :D In all seriousness, you must have pried [i]something[/i] from urk during a drinking session... Something embarrassing, perhaps? I propose that we invite every Bungie employee to a crazy, booze-filled party at a location with a large number of hidden audio recording devices.

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