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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Phantom139: 10/24/2014 6:47:51 PM
373

Why you SHOULD consider buying the Destiny DLC.

So by now, most of you have seen some people come onto these forums and make fools of themselves with these wild theories and post their silly "messiah's" video as their only proof to these theories, and I've honestly been having a cakewalk of laughter here in terms of this, and then they attacked me with words, so now it's time to take the gloves off here and punish them with the truth. They cite a video of why you shouldn't buy the DLC, so it's only fitting that you read my post on why you should buy the DLC packs. So let's get to it. First off, that introduction you read there will be the only bashing I do in this post, I'm done with long rant filled posts that usually catch the attention of some people as pure negativity. This post will have absolutely none of that, I'm only going to present the facts, and discuss them and I'll let common sense take over from there. Personally, I would have done better with my own counter-video, but to be honest, most of you I believe are tired of seeing go to 'x' Youtube page, watch, like & subscribe, so no, I don't want you to do that, just give this a good read. :) So most of you have at least seen a few of my posts or have read them, and some of you may not know everything about me. I run my own independent game development company. I have numerous years of programming experience, as well as experience in design and implementation from some small projects I have worked on or with, so you can trust me when I say that I know how games "work" internally. So, let's start with breaking down the most "shot at" point, which is Destiny's currently lacking story. Some of you know, and others don't know, that the lead writer of the story for Destiny left Bungie shortly after the first E3 trip that Bungie took, where they revealed a video of gameplay and talked about some mechanics in the game. Why he left is unknown to us, but what we do know is that during that time, and the time of the alpha/beta, the story as well as numerous game mechanics were changed. This is something that happens all too much in video games, let's not all forget the days of Halo 2 where we had a trailer of an awesome mission, and that wasn't in the final game. Content and mechanics get cut due to all sorts of reasons. Mechanics such as Trading, Gambling, and others were cut from the final product. The reasons, can only be told to you by Bungie, so I cannot provide it to you, just know that they may have been present before, but are gone now. As for the "amount" of story content in the game, this is where some frustration comes into play by people, but you need to also realize that Bungie had to change the story in about a Year's time, so they may have been running out of said time to get everything they wanted done, this is also something that can happen when you have big name titles, so the developer will polish up as much as they can to release to you. This is where the DLC packs enter the picture. How this works is when a game is nearing completion, the team behind the design will start working on the DLC packs for the game, this is how it always works, and sometimes this content may be put on the game's disk as a placeholder or a template to upcoming content (See DestinyTracker for info), in fact, many of you have already found some of this placeholder content, but if you've actually looked carefully, you'll notice it's not done yet. I think the best example I can provide is the upcoming "awesome" new gun Necrochasm, which is a reward for completing Crota's End on Hard. Have a look [url=http://db.destinytracker.com/inventory/item/2809229973]at this beauty[/url], but if you look closely, you'll see the noted [b]Cursebringer[/b] perk has a template icon in it's place, and there is no 3D model present for this gun. This tells us that the concept design and base stats were placed in the game prior to it going gold, but the actual implementation isn't actually done yet, IE: It's being worked on, sound familiar? [quote]People are working on this content right now at Bungie. It's not finished.[/quote] Also, if you personally haven't actually explored some of these areas that have been found, please do so, and tell me what you actually find in there. You'll find a lot of glitches, non-working elements, and even placeholder or template art which is obviously not finalized, so again, as DeeJ best said, the content is being worked on. So all of these threads and hate messages about "Disk Locked Content" are not valid my friends, all MMO style games use the tactic of prior implementation to cut on the design work of the developers, IE: They're making it easier to deliver the content to you, sooner. This isn't to scare you, or some corporate bullcrap, these "pre-designed" areas are in place to get the content to you much quicker. WoW uses this tactic for every expansion they make, and that game is still going strong, and the people don't complain about those areas. So, why are you community, doing the same to Bungie, when they're using this tactic to [b]HELP YOU[/b], the player? It just doesn't make sense to me. The last thing I'd like to address here is something very cool, the fact that those are "placeholders" in the DB of the game files tells me that there's definitely a lot of cool new stuff actually coming to the game. I believe fully, that the "leak" or "rumor" of the third subclass and the content of Crota's End from the anonymous tester is 100% true, in fact, if Bungie was dispatching their Ninja's to "delete it or face a ban", then it kind of points to the fact that it's probably true. So people please, chill out. This is a MMO-Style game that is very early in it's life. We need to be helping Bungie give us the experience we want to enjoy here. They don't want to read hundreds of rant posts and hate all day, they want honest feedback to help bring the experience to you. Bungie employees are also Guardians, they want to have the exciting journey that you're taking part in. Don't take in these hate filled videos with silly theories as truth. Unless the information is directly confirmed as truth by means of Bungie telling us that it is, or by means of us actually seeing it for ourselves, it is nothing more than a personal opinion, which is not true information, which is why we finally reach the end of my discussion, and why I think you'd be missing out on an awesome experience to let one 30 minute video ruin what would be a wonderful expansion to your game. Game on Guardians, and I'll see you in Crota's End in December! [b]Edit: My note on the upcoming content part has been clarified ash55, the post/thread was deleted due to it breaking the rules of the forum, genuine leak or not[/b] [b]Edit 2:[/b] [b]Too Long Didn't Read[/b] People who are posting videos on youtube attacking your decision to buy the DLC are not legitimate because there is no solid proof to what they are providing you with, IE: they're lying to you, or pushing an agenda of their own. You should at least consider buying the DLC's due to the cool stuff we've already seen some templates for in the game's database, and finally, the DLC isn't done yet, it's being worked on right now, so these threads and theories suggesting otherwise are wrong. [b]To All:[/b] I do appreciate the select individuals who have provided constructive comments, however the most of you are obviously too hooked on negativity to resort to attacks on me and anyone who disagrees with you, which is honestly an attack on your own credibility. Your "Self-Entitlement" behavior will not be tolerated any more in this thread, if you have nothing constructive to provide, don't bother posting as you will simply be ignored. Opinions the other way will be completely ignored without a solid piece of evidence to back up your claim (Posting a youtube video will not be treated as such). Finally, in no way or form am I required to post a video to make my own point, if you're too lazy to read or at least form a reasonable opinion based on facts, then don't bother posting either. Finally, to anyone who thinks attacking my credibility is a good idea, I guarantee you that it will only hurt you when I press that shiny report button for misinformation, I have provided my credentials many times before, so I don't need to do so again.

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  • Edited by peskyibex: 10/24/2014 5:12:54 AM
    Well put. Edit: Plug for post I made earlier along the same lines as this one.

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  • 100+ hours played; I think that in itself justifies DLC

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  • 0
    You say all of this, but you have no proof of your credentials, and you write to the point where you sound like a fan-boy. This post is invalid.

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  • I didn't read because Im buying the DLC so Im exempt from your giant post. ;)

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  • My only issue is where to draw the line at what my $60 gets me. I get putting in formatting for other add-on areas but there was a lot of work done to these areas. Shouldn't they have released with the disc? I get that they are going to have DLC add-ons and that they are being worked on but there just wasn't enough usable content on the disc at time of release to constitute a FULL game. There was a LOT of work done outside of what was released, sure they are going to release it as paid for DLC but I cant help but feel cheated. They should just have waited and released a game with more usable content. Its a common argument; when is it DLC and when is it cheating the consumer? Its a fuzzy line and has been debated hotly in several other forums not just this one. I have the season pass, and if they release new $60 "full versions" of the game I will likely buy them. Simply because It is the ONLY way I will be able to get the content and I love this game. I just think that this is supporting bad behavior. It would have been better if they gave the disc away and just charged everyone a monthly fee. My ¢2

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    • 0
      I dunno I think the content and story are much better than my last ps4 games (knack and killzone)

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    • 0
      You will receive poop loot for the rest of eternity.

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    • I respect everyone's right to purchase games and interact with the industry the way they see fit. Here's why the DLC is concerning. I also appreciate the time you've taken to share your thoughts on the game and the DLC. But I have to disagree with your interpretation of it for a few reasons. 1) It (the dlc) was there right from the beginning: There was a time when DLC was a pleasant add on to expand content in an already finished game that hit a home run with the players- kind of like when a band is called back on stage by the crowd. It often added new single player or some more multiplayer maps. Destiny's was advertised in the package of the day one release, on top of that the fairly short campaign, poor storytelling and limited end game content make people angry because it seems like the flesh of the game was sacrificed for DLC. 2) Expansion packs have been around for a long time in gaming, the content in these is often far more fleshed out and more expansive than what we are seeing in the form of the modern DLC that is beginning to become a precedent in the industry. Expansion packs bridged the gap between games and sequels and expanded the lifespan of great games. These Destiny DLC's do not appear to be expansion packs in terms of what is in the leaked content- I hope they end up being more substantive than they appear to be. 3) Modern DLC doesn't expand the game significantly nor is it an addition to an already well developed core game, Destiny is the latest and best example of this. I should not be looking to purchase a DLC to fix a game that is lacking core content, I should not get an advertisment for DLC in the release copy of the game that I just purchased. Noone here is against the idea of DLC and expansions, they are against what very well may be (and probably is if you look at current industry precedent) a willful attempt to withold content or release limited content and then force players to purchase the rest of the game through pseudo-microtransactions. In regards to the hidden areas I don't actually find them particularly damning, nor do I need to to make my argument- the proof is in the accessible game- which is so limited in scope and content and so unsatisfactory in story. If the DLC releases and it turns out to be hugely expansive and revamps the game I will get it, if it is five missions and a couple strikes and a raid then I will not. Our willing acceptance of this new model of DLC is bad for gaming, It seems to be getting worse every year and Destiny is the latest and greatest example of how pervasive it is.

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      • All I will say about this is that it is very poor form for a developer to finish a story using paid DLC. DLC it's supposed to add to the story. This opens the door to a large portion of the destiny community to miss out on the story. What if movies left out the third act, which had to be purchased separately. The video that has been making the rounds lately, as far as I took away from it, wasn't really wasn't a rant saying Bungie lied to us, blah blah blah. I know game change over their development. They evolve, mechanics are cut, scenes trimmed, graphics scrapped,etc. What my gripe is that for months they presented a game with various videos showcasing the game and getting everyone excited for it. Then the game releases. And like the guy in the video, we were left scratching o our heads wondering what happened. It wasn't o over hype that left us feeling this way, it is a game that changed behind the scenes without an explanation. Personally it's the silence that's most annoying. Whether or not you agree the story is lacking. Regardless of your stance on DLC, the ENTIRE community is taking about it. And a developer that puts out a weekly updates about its gameshoild have addressed it by now. The fact that they haven't is almost da mning in itself.

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        • I violated [url=/en/View/bungie/conduct]DeeJ's Mother[/url] and was met with Sexy Justice.

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        • I bought it. I don't really care if it turns out dumb. There's not much else one Xbox one ATM that I'm interested in. I was looking at the hockey game but its 60$ not sure if its worth it

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          • Good post. People are jumping on this crazy conspiracy train at an alarming rate. Everyone needs to just take a step back and realize everything that's happened makes complete sense, especially when taking into account the current nature of AAA games and the situation Bungie has been put in with their writer leaving when he did.

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            • I believe that there is going to be a ton of value in the DLC. More so now then ever before in any Bungie game because they feel the weight of their community, critics and new to series gamers in this game or the next. Bungie has never quite had their back against a wall more than it has found themselves in Destiny. With an exciting new IP, tons of development time and money the pressure has been- will stay on them. If there is one thing I have learned about Bungie- is they have incredibly talented people working for them. From Masters of the craft, code writers, artists, project leads and so forth Bungie has an incredible team. We are in the beginning stages of game development... Why? We have a brand new IP, imagined universe, game play, characters and mechanics at our disposal... Bungie is listening, learning and preparing to adapt. NEVER count Bungie out. The closer you look- the less you see. -See you starside.

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              • Look what we got for 500 million. 500 million Compare that budget to the budget of games like GTA 5 and Skyrim 500 Million the end

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                • If I dont buy it then I'll just spend the money on weed

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                • Read the first five words and you'll realize why I stopped reading. WTF? "So by any far now" WTF?

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                • Edited by Muted: 10/24/2014 4:20:34 AM
                  #WhiteKnight The content at release was shit and you know it. Dlc does not make up for the fact that we will be doing the same ol shit for the next two months cuz most of us HC players are near or at lvl 30

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                • i make Destiny YouTube videos https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYruasTzqoBjlkXiQcBGsUC7UnnuHiFta

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                • Edited by Dredd_fan: 10/24/2014 4:16:44 AM
                  You work for Bungie don't you? On a serious note you are merely speculating. Assumption is the mother of all F**K Ups. And the word Assume makes an ASS out of U and ME

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                • I think this is a very well written post and I agree completely. I'm glad some people can try and discuss this without being childish, immature and hateful.

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                • This game is not an mmo, not by a long shot. Comparing this to wow is just wrong. Look at the contract between bungie and Activision... It lays out plans for 4 separate destiny titles with 4 large expansions for each title as well as dlc along the way. Mmo's have a base game and add to it as long as the financial demand is there. So after 10 years you can still access that original content. After reading the products section it appears that the subsequent titles will be standalone games ie. you won't be able to access the destiny 1 content playing destiny 2. A comparison to the mass effect trilogy applies better here.

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                  • I will be positive and constructive, I have enjoyed the game thus far. I am a single father with two boys and we all play, so I understand the views of adults and teens playing this game. Me and my boys are gamers, we love heading over to GameStop and checking out new games to play, my oldest boy is more geared towards building, modifying and improving equipment and gear, my youngest son is somewhere between Bruce Lee and Hon Solo - butt kicker who likes cars, bikes and anything that accelerates. As for me, I consider myself drawn more to story content, fighting evil and so forth, but I am really drawn to a good story. Me and my boys have played a lot of games, list too long to list all the titles but some of my favorites so far is, "Last Of Us", " Mass Effect" , " Silent Hill", "COD" most of the Resident Evil, "Bound By Flames, "Infamous", "Oblivion" and so on. The biggest disappointment with Destiny was lack of story, roam space, feel like I am in a box. I am greatly disappointed in the fact that they spent all these years designing this game and we beat it in less than 3 weeks, well the story so far and I don't even know what the story truly is. I am very hesitant to spend more money on something, when I already spent $60.00 and have played better games for half that price. I am truly hoping that they will open up more content soon, I think it is critical for the future of Destiny that Bungie makes good on the story - otherwise they will lose a tremendous amount of players. I truly do hope they will, I truly hope it gets better with what I have paid for and if it does I will continue to play as I am sure my boys will as well. I am not a big PVP gamer myself, I'd much rather fight demons or monsters or what have you. For me, I need a cause and without that cause I lose interest. So if Destiny is focused more on the PVP content, that will get old after awhile. Without a trade system, more merchants, community events that will draw players together - I can't see how it will grow. Also, why so many different sparrows? Why so many different ships? I have 4 ships and 2 sparrows now, not really sure why other than I think they look cool. Why not have races? Something to keep us interested. I really had hoped to be able to drive the ship myself, maybe some battles with fallen in space and so on. Also the game characters are so lifeless, I hope that is something that is on the drawing board. The problem is that I see, if they gear it to PVP entirely, then they lose a tremendous amount of gamers - for me anyhow...that's not my thing. I will be patient and see what unravels here in the near future, but I won't be spending any additional cash, to only be disappointed again. I enjoyed the game, I definitely don't think it was worth $60.00 by any stretch of the imagination!! I spent $45.00 on Reckoning and that was a freaking amazing game!!! Anyhow what ever Bungie does, well they will have to live with it and as for me, yeah feel like I'm out 15 or so dollars but I am still playing Destiny, not sure for how much longer but I will continue to play. Oh also just finished playing "Two Souls" which was a great game as well, what Bungie has to remember is, there are lots of new games coming out and the minute we lose interest - it's a bit more difficult to draw us back in. Anyways, here's hoping that the big wigs will listen to the game designers for a change rather that the cha ching in their pockets, because if this goes down as a major failure - they will lose tons of returning customers. That's a big hurdle to get over, people who feel they were burnt won't even touch a game with the name Bungie or Activision on the label.

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                  • Disclaimer: I bought the two upcoming DLCs with the original pre-order, so I will be playing Destiny for some time anyway. I don't claim to be a fan-boy or a hater. I have been disappointed with the watered-down story as well, and have made posts to that opinion in the past. I do like the game, and I enjoy playing it as it checks that box, but it is not close to my favorite and there are improvements to be made. I do have that hope that it will get better as many other long-term game series have in the past (sequels usually attempt to fill in the gaps id'd by the players and improve on their formulae). I enjoyed the viewpoint put forth in the referenced video from the OP...it is nice to hear a good argument presented with a good perspective. The problem that I have with the 30-min video that was posted is that the Activision-Bungie contract from 2010, which can't be the most current version based on some of the info in there, already outlined that the game was intended to be "Teen" or "PEGI-16." One of the longest sections of the video was based on the game being gutted due to the necessity to get down to Teen...but if it was intended to be Teen from the beginning, why would it be written for Mature, then gutted down to Teen? Why not write for Teen from the start, which would potentially refute that theory. My only thought was that they submitted their game to the ESRB and feedback came back that indicated higher than Teen would come from it, so then maybe they had to make cuts...but that is in accordance with their contract, so to me it is a reasonable decision to make...just sucks that the story may have suffered from it. Also, another point was the cut on content due to the next gen transition. Destiny Game #1 was intended for Xbox 360, 720 (eventually XBone) with evaluation on PS3 to ensure it can be developed for it. PS4 was never mentioned until the Destiny #2 game verbiage....which is a reason I believe that the contract had to have been amended after the PS3 technical feasibility analysis and the exclusive deal with Sony that came out further down the line. If the first game, DLC and "Comet/Expansion" was intended to be built for 360/720 with analysis necessary for PS3 with no mention of PS4, wouldn't the direction of development be to that lower level of capability from the start, not built up to XBone/PS4 levels, then cut down to 360/PS3 levels? I am not a game developer or even in the software business at all, but this doesn't logically make sense to me. Why develop high only to cut low...why not build to the known limiting factors and then try to go higher if later technology and time allows? Lastly, to those opinions about the "lies" told to us. Activision's responsibilities in the contract was marketing. There is no mention on the part of Bungie as the licensor to market the game. So any videos, commercials, or other released content that was part of marketing, was put forth by Activision. Not to say that Bungie isn't part of that, as they were responsible to deliver the content, expertise and materials for Activision to use in their marketing, and Bungie also retained the right to market screenshots, videos and such via their community site (Bungie.net). But honestly, anyone believing that all content seen in Trailers or Gameplay videos will make it to the final version is deluding themselves. How many times have you seen a movie trailer and later watched the movie and thought...where was that one part from the trailer? Edits are made, they own the game and made decisions, we just bought and played it. I am sure there were bad decisions, errors, and mistakes made during the long development process and ensuing marketing (hype) leading up to release, but were they outright lies, or just mistakes that they needed to spin to make the best of? Are they responsible to their community? - in many respects yes, and they are making changes, but not everyone will agree with them of course (can't make everyone happy all the time). Some will decide not to buy the DLC, some will...it is a free market after all. The above is of course, based on a 2010 contract that was likely amended to who knows what, so is also just conjecture. Apologies for the wall of text to anyone that actually read it all.

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                  • Great post mate, keep up the good words. I agree with you 100%.

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                  • Bungie hyped up a 'Gourmet Kobe Beef sandwich' but delivered us a shit sandwich with no bread. Now they want people to pay for the bread. A shit sandwich is still a shit sandwich.

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                  • ... i doubt you are an independent game dev, for the simple fact you don't list your credentials. the simple fact is this, destiny was planned YEARS in advance, we had hints all the way back in ODST that was 5 years ago, we've had numerous gameplay footage, and dev commentary from 2013, and 2012. but suddenly ALOT of information that was revealed was NOT in game, alot of information which was datamined from the beta data, IS NOT IN GAME, even the damn story IS NOT IN GAME (it's in a grimoire, something which would take a skilled writer a couple of days to write up, and a skilled programmer a small amount of time to write up the interface, hell the longest part of the grimoire cards is probably the artwork that went into them). the crow footage sure, that could be cut, the spaceship dropping off fireteam, sure, data can be cut, but the problem is not the cut data, but rather what IS included in destiny, the content is lacking, the story non existent, the gameplay is fun, but missions, storyline, plot, objectives, are all simplistic, the videos reviewing this game, the one (yea i know exactly what video you are talking about) encouraging people not to buy the expansions, they bring up VALID and CONSISTENT points, they are not "messiahs" they bring up valid points, and bring up their own opinions on a course of action, just like you, they are opposite your viewpoint, you and them are same sides of a coin, if you say their points are irrelevant, are unneeded, and that they shouldn't be listened to, then you invalidate your own view, because you are doing the exact same thing they are doing (only with a conflicting objective). the fact is simple, destiny is NOT the game it could've been, nor is it the same game that was hyped up, this is not a simple failure of overhyping the game, this is a failure far more massive than that, the gameplay, story, mechanics ALL point to a game that had underwent drastic change late in development, we were promised a game with years of work done in it to make a awesome game, instead we got a game with less than a year of work, with the obvious business model of "buy the dlc"

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