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8/30/2017 12:11:26 AM
235
Auto Aim has no place in PVP on PC. It completely diminishes the experience, and it must be removed.
[i]I know it's long, but please read my post before you respond. Even if you disagree with me, we're on the same side; We all want this game to be as awesome as possible.[/i]
I am [b]NOT[/b] saying that:
- I'm salty because I'm getting totally stomped by controller users.
- People shouldn't be allowed to use controllers.
- Controller users are console player trash and are innately inferior to members of the PC Master Race.
- I don't understand why Auto Aim is in the game at all and it should be removed entirely.
I [b]AM[/b] saying that:
- [b]PVP with an uneven playing field [i]feels bad[/i]. [/b]Not only does it make it more frustrating to lose ([i]"I only lost because Bungie gives controller users free aimbots"[/i]) it [b]devalues winning[/b] ([i]"I can't be sure if we won because I'm awesome, or because the other three players on my team are playing with controllers"[/i]).
- [b]It opens another vector for cheating.[/b] We're already seeing this with players who plug in controllers to add the aim assist to their M+KB play. You're going to have your hands full with people trying to cheat [i]as it is[/i], even if you find a way to track and ban this behavior it's going to be a constant game of cat-and-mouse as people continually discover ways to abuse the aimbot you yourselves added to the game. Why not avoid this headache altogether by disabling it in PVP?
- [b]People will take PVP less seriously[/b] knowing there are sanctioned aimbots among the playerbase, and it will irreparably damage not only the engagement of your most ardent players (the competitively-minded who will stick it out between PVE releases) but if you have designs on making this an Esport, you can kiss those goodbye. The jokes at the expense of your game will be [i]torrential[/i].
I will say that [b]I have no issue with Auto Aim existing in PVE[/b]. If it makes peoples' experience better with their control method of choice, I totally get it and I think it should be kept in the game.
[b]This just doesn't make sense when applied to PVP, though[/b]. It's less fun than it could be, for everyone involved. It's gotta go. Speaking as a core gamer, I [i]want [/i]to sink a bunch of time into getting good at the PVP in this game. But if it's cheapened in this way, the simple fact is I'm going to get bored and frustrated, and go back to one of the many FPSes already available which actually presents a legitimately competitive experience.
Thanks for reading.
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bump! bungie, time for change on the PC. Look at the numbers! We were right, auto aim on pc has done it's bit to kill it.
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Edited by MadHaze_01: 2/9/2018 10:06:43 PM
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Edited by L0rd_Hal0g3n: 10/10/2017 7:38:57 PMI'm very happy to see that this is being addressed. Now I know this topic is for PC users but I play on console and would also like to see some attempt by Bungie to improve the aiming customisation for Destiny 2. I detest aim assist and I believe(opinion) that it diminishes any triumph that I have in defeating another player competitively due to the fact that the victory isn't based on my TRUE performance. I play mostly MP games such as Overwatch and Battlefield and there's tons of customisation options! There's more options in Plants vs Zombies than there is in Destiny 2! Please can I have the option to disable aim assist? How about dead zones and ADS sensitivity?? Even a slider for sensitivity would be great instead of jumping from whole number increments. I find the lack of preferences for aiming to be somewhat appalling. I'm not asking for it to be removed...if people need an aid for aiming that's fine...just give me the option to disable and more customisation for aiming in general.
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Lol console players are trash wow that's is a misconception , yes auto aim is on consoles because of everything now days is catered to the less skilled players , you have to be very ignorant to think because a player uses a controller is trash some players are great An keyboard An mouse An some are great at controller before PC gaming take a look at arcade games all joy sticks know your history before you just sprout out nonsense.
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I'm shocked how toxic this community is on here. PvP is a game of skill, even in casual. A system that allows you to miss by a mile and still get hits is not "normal netcode". How is this even open for debate on here? PvE is ok I guess, but again being able to miss by a mile and still register hits is a dumbing down of the game.
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3 RepliesEdited by FxtrtTngoWhisky: 9/1/2017 3:02:26 AMI'm sorry, what? Is this your first PC PVP/FPS? Did you know that netcode{includes auto-aim or bullet magnetism) exists on all PC games? Do you know why? Seems to me that if a problem/benefit exists for everyone, it's still balanced. Just play the game or don't, quit trying to tell the people who make them, how to make them. If you want a game made exactly to your spec, go write, build and produce one.
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174 Replies
Cozmo_BNGOk - old
This is a topic we have anticipated. Thank you for sharing your points in a constructive manner. It’s a conversation we will continue to monitor. Please continue to share honest feedback about your experiences in the wild. This is why we test. Thanks for playing. We’ll talk more after the PC Beta. -
2 RepliesEdited by Patient3591: 8/30/2017 6:11:09 AMYeah, giving aim assist to players who use a controller on PC is nonsense. If they were going to do that, why not allow cross-platform play between console and PC? And since you can use a keyboard and mouse as a controller, you can have aim assist even with a keyboard and mouse, so why even remove aim assist from keyboard and mouse users in the first place? Even as a console player I can see that this choice is ridiculous. I hope Bungie sees the PC community's response to this and removes aim assist from the PC version or at least removes it from PvP, because they are throwing away any chance of being taken seriously by the competitive PC crowd otherwise.
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1 ReplyNobody talks about the different recoil pattern from weapons when using a Controller instread of a mouse. Please fire against a wall with a controller , and the with a mouse. Dont move your mouse/thimbstick when doing this and compare the patterns.
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1 ReplyPlaying Destiny for 3 Years, and lots of PvP I can say neither Destiny 1 nor Destiny 2 is somehow competetive and will never be... it has a p2p connection, a poor netcode where even melee-trades are as common as "normal" kills... you never can be sure, that your opened is there where you see him, that he doesn't saw you half a secon earlier, cause of bad tickrate or connection... As a Veterean I can tell you this: If you want to buy this game because of PvE, MMO-like playing coop with friends, do it, it's kinda fun a couple of hundred hours or even more. If you want a competetive Shooter XP, NO, JUST NO! AA is the smallest concern regarding pvp!
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23 RepliesEdited by IM N0T GARBAGE: 8/31/2017 3:47:42 PMThis put me in a very weird position imo. I played Destiny 1 on xbox and put in hundreds of hours with the controller. My muscle memory is pretty much locked in with Destiny. Then they release the beta on console and PC. I played both the PC and console beta and it is just so much better with the 60+ fps and on my 1440p ultrawide. I use the controller on PC because that is what i'm use to and now i'm being told that it gives an advantage due to aim assist. Is aim assist on controller really that much better than precision aiming on mouse and keyboard? If a top player had aim assist on controller vs a top player with precision aiming on KB&M who would consistently win? I don't feel like it's giving me any kind of advantage when I play. So should I be shamed for using what I prefer? Do have to stick with a subpar locked 30fps on console at 1080p (cuz i don't own and 4k tv) because people feel that is a even playing field for me since I use a controller. Or do I just say F what people think and enjoy the game at 1440p at 60fps? I'm telling you now i'm sticking with what I deem comfortable to me.Is anyone else in the same boat as me? Who is coming from console to pc and sticking with a controller?
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6 RepliesEdited by seathasky: 8/31/2017 1:58:36 PMMy friend who owns a xim4 made this video showcasing how dumb it is, i totally agree with him from seeing the footage he recorded. Why would bungie put aim assist on pc version? i dont get it.
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Edited by Crankeh: 9/4/2017 10:20:34 PMThe argument here isn't that controllers have aim assist. This issue at hand is that it can be exploited by either software or hardware spoofing to get AA with a mouse and keyboard. Most every day K/M vet will poop on a controller user any day of the week. Give AA to a mouse and keyboard user? Everyone gets wrecked. I'll be the first to admit, I used a XIM4 during year 1 Destiny. The crucible was stupid, and the PvE content I was getting 75% more precision kills than my controller using friends while most of the time doubling their kill counts. That's even with the crap translation the XIM offered because of the consoles wonky and slow look mechanics. If you're bringing a game to the PC world, make it the PC standard. Any serious FPS on PC has ZERO aim assist. If Blizzard couldn't find a way to stop controller spoofing to get AA no one will. Either get rid of AA entirely OR leave it on for PvE and turn off for PvP.
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57 RepliesEdited by BIMPtacular: 8/30/2017 11:32:35 PMBy this same logic of unfair advantages they should also - not allow high refresh rate monitors - lock to a common resolution - remove HDR - remove support for ultra-wide monitors - DPI lock for mice - Ban for keyboard macros - No mice with extra keys than can be mapped All of these things easily provide an advantage. It would suck for you to feel like your team won because they have better hardware than the other team. You want a console experience on PC. Let people play with their controllers and enjoy the game. I never thought in a million years I'd hear PC folks complaining about controllers being OP. lol
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Remove aim assist for pvp. Pve its fine
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6 RepliesFor anyone curious to see how stupid this is, here's a video. Just remove it from PC. There's no place for it on this platform.
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I'm a simple man, I see boobs or no aim assist threads and I give a like and reply.
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Edited by Packis: 9/4/2017 12:09:38 PMThis is a very emotional post. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/230450981?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1]I'd Suggest seeing my post here about what actually happens when you use a XIM4 vs every other input method.[/url] Just to clarify what is happening, It just seems as if this is an issue to over react about just for the sake of over reacting when it in fact doesn't make a major difference. I'd like to see you get good with a XIM4 M+K. It's more difficult to learn especially when you're used to console. I speak from experience. Skilled players use whatever they want to and so few players use the XIM4 input method that getting rid of AA altogether would have a huge negative impact on the PC side in regard to console players, a lot of people are switching and they don't want to struggle to aim with a controller in pvp. People use what they want to use and they'll get good at it no matter what. Hell someone could play D2 with a chicken bone and wreck then there would be a post called "Chicken bones have no place in destiny PvP."
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Good, leave. Its a game. If you cant be -blam!-ed learning to play well with a mouse and blame your loss on the other team because they use controllers. Controllers of ALL THINGS.. They arent op, the aim assist isnt OP ok ITS NOT AN AIM BOT!, its a crutch in a way so yes but its not -blam!-ing aim bot. You need to still aim. Theres a reason that this discussion isnt a thing on consoles and its because controllers CANT FUNCTION without minor aim correcting. They just need to nerf the aim assist way way down. not completely remove it.
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2 RepliesEdited by MoonlightHare: 8/31/2017 8:43:03 AMMerely playing Devils advocate as I have no intention of playing on PC How would you compensate Controller players for the greater accuracy of KB/M and the recoil on a Controller in PvP or should they be at a disadvantage instead
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Edited by Grasp of Malok: 9/4/2017 7:53:32 AMGood god i hope the first curse comes back in D2. I'd enjoy the salt with 'the first curse' buff giving bonus damage [b]AND 100% AIM ASSIST![/b] LMAO! and if the argument of some exotics still existing because it's part of the destiny universe (gjallahorn, the last word, suros regime, etc...) has any amount of truth tied in, then the first curse can still possibly exist because it's a tex mechanica weapon. [spoiler][i]And tex mechanica is still alive. She can still make her guns.[/i] Damn, the future [i]'balance patches'[/i] are gonna be hella something huh?[/spoiler] Oh, and to the topic. you people needstop crying like a infant about the obvious xim4+M&K exploit, and blaming the whole thing on controler users that are used to playing with the controller. [b](not at you OP)[/b] If the no imput lag M&K is so superior to the controller with imput lag, then why complain about controller users when the main culprits are the xim4/cronus max/whateverthe-blam!- max users?
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i can't believe all these morons here actually think aim assist is that strong lmao. if you really think thumbsticks with a bit of aim assist has any advantage over a decent mnk player, you're a downright fool. just watch someone's movement with a control compared to a mnk. mnks potential is lightyears ahead of a bit of aim assist with THUMBSTICKS lmao.
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Oh, here we go again. [quote]People will take PVP less seriously knowing there are sanctioned aimbots among the playerbase, and it will irreparably damage not only the engagement of your most ardent players ([b]the competitively-minded who will stick it out between PVE releases[/b]) but if you have designs on making this an Esport, you can kiss those goodbye. The jokes at the expense of your game will be torrential.[/quote] Here's a little secret: PvE engagement, has always being higher than PvP engagement, even during a lul in content. It maximizes when new content is released, certainly, but you and every other PvP player vastly overstates its important during these content droughts. Source: http://destinytracker.com/destiny/reports/daily-population [quote]This just doesn't make sense when applied to PVP, though. It's less fun than it could be, for everyone involved. It's gotta go. Speaking as a core gamer, I want to sink a bunch of time into getting good at the PVP in this game. But if it's cheapened in this way, the simple fact is I'm going to get bored and frustrated, and go back to one of the many FPSes already available which actually presents a legitimately competitive experience.[/quote] Removing Aim Assist completely will just move the frustration and boredom to those deciding to play with a controller. Since Bungie might actually read this: Balance PvE and PvP separately. You've already ruined several classes in Destiny for the sake of PvP balance, you shouldn't need me to tell you the obvious, but hey... here we are. Don't do it again.
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Agreed, I refunded my pre-order partly due to this issue. Completely fine with players wanting to use a controller, even with it having SOME aim assist. But not to the degree it currently has. Catering to people that don't want to put the time and effort into getting better with a M&Kb is the same casual catering that occurred in D1 with other design decisions.
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1 ReplyAgree!
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Shouldn't be in PvP only PvE it's just too easy to exploit. If you choose to use a controller that's fine, but why should you get extra help for picking that? A decent mouse... Any mouse is better than a controller. You could buy something for $10 and honestly be okay. Its a much better experience to play FPS games with a mouse and keyboard. I grew up on consoles and mostly played shooters until I switched to PC about four years ago. Now I will NEVER play a shooter with a controller again! Don't be intimidated by switching. All your skills will transfer over and your aim will greatly improve. Its such a better experience and couldn't recommend the switch more.
