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8/30/2017 12:11:26 AM
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Auto Aim has no place in PVP on PC. It completely diminishes the experience, and it must be removed.
[i]I know it's long, but please read my post before you respond. Even if you disagree with me, we're on the same side; We all want this game to be as awesome as possible.[/i]
I am [b]NOT[/b] saying that:
- I'm salty because I'm getting totally stomped by controller users.
- People shouldn't be allowed to use controllers.
- Controller users are console player trash and are innately inferior to members of the PC Master Race.
- I don't understand why Auto Aim is in the game at all and it should be removed entirely.
I [b]AM[/b] saying that:
- [b]PVP with an uneven playing field [i]feels bad[/i]. [/b]Not only does it make it more frustrating to lose ([i]"I only lost because Bungie gives controller users free aimbots"[/i]) it [b]devalues winning[/b] ([i]"I can't be sure if we won because I'm awesome, or because the other three players on my team are playing with controllers"[/i]).
- [b]It opens another vector for cheating.[/b] We're already seeing this with players who plug in controllers to add the aim assist to their M+KB play. You're going to have your hands full with people trying to cheat [i]as it is[/i], even if you find a way to track and ban this behavior it's going to be a constant game of cat-and-mouse as people continually discover ways to abuse the aimbot you yourselves added to the game. Why not avoid this headache altogether by disabling it in PVP?
- [b]People will take PVP less seriously[/b] knowing there are sanctioned aimbots among the playerbase, and it will irreparably damage not only the engagement of your most ardent players (the competitively-minded who will stick it out between PVE releases) but if you have designs on making this an Esport, you can kiss those goodbye. The jokes at the expense of your game will be [i]torrential[/i].
I will say that [b]I have no issue with Auto Aim existing in PVE[/b]. If it makes peoples' experience better with their control method of choice, I totally get it and I think it should be kept in the game.
[b]This just doesn't make sense when applied to PVP, though[/b]. It's less fun than it could be, for everyone involved. It's gotta go. Speaking as a core gamer, I [i]want [/i]to sink a bunch of time into getting good at the PVP in this game. But if it's cheapened in this way, the simple fact is I'm going to get bored and frustrated, and go back to one of the many FPSes already available which actually presents a legitimately competitive experience.
Thanks for reading.
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How do you know its not just good aim?
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There's auto aim?
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2 RepliesWaaaaaa. Waaaaaaaa.
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8 RepliesI think you are actually just trash
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To be honest I severely doubt bungie will separately balance the PC and consoles ports of the game. They have always pushed for a continuous experience regardless of what console or activity you are on or doing. To put it frankly, you either accept it or you leave. I am sorry if I come off as rude, but Bungie is really stubborn about these things.
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1 ReplyI've played a handfull of matches now and for me the auto-aim doesn't feel that horrible at all. It's what you'd expect from playing with a controller, if your reticle is close enough to your opponent it will follow them slightly but it's still up to you to get your crosshair on there completely and get the job done. In my OPINION the auto-aim help for controllers isn't that much an issue, but we'll see regardless what Bungie decides to do with it when it comes up to their attention.
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2 RepliesEdited by Fridén: 8/30/2017 4:54:04 PMDestiny is a console shooting first. It was added to PC. Now I won't be playing on PC so I don't really care, but I would imagine their are tons of players who wish to play it on multiple platforms, with the same experience on each. Taking away AA for controller use would remove that ability and essentially force the use of keyboard and mouse unless you wish to put yourself at an extreme disadvantage. Also, I had always thought keyboard + mouse is still better than a controller with AA. I might be ignorant here though.
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1 ReplyI think giving people who want to play on PC with a controller some form of aim-assist is completely fine, now I haven't played with a controller myself yet but after reading this post I am quite curious about how much it actually affects it. Regardless, I will test it out this evening and see if it's as bad as you describe it, in the worst case if it's really a problem where you could start calling it an "aimbot" I think Bungie would simply just have to tone down the auto-aim slightly.
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Edited by medved: 8/30/2017 3:20:37 PMIf aim assist is to be removed, the controller system has to be revamped as a whole to allow for quicker movement and more accuracy via enabling deadzone and sensitivity curve customization. I'm all for that, as it is what I utilize with games like Battlefield 1, Gears of War 4, and Titanfall 2 on PC when my carpal tunnel kicks in. This would level the playing field a bit and minimize the need for aim assist. Yes, keyboard and mouse will always be superior, but this would be a step in the right direction for those wanting to use a controller for whatever reason. Just disabling aim assist would make the already extremely slow and clunky controller system in place even worse. Edit: yes, please downvote me for proposing a solution instead of just bitching about aim assist and offering no course of action.
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2 RepliesCompared to console there is barely any aim assist on PC because with MnK you can react faster, turn on people quicker (sensitivity is much faster than controller) , less recoil with hand cannons/weapons in general than controller. (Mind you this XIM4 is technically cheating - but if Destiny ever became competitive you know they wouldn't allow MnK to use XIM4 at tournaments etc) There is really no need for AA to be taken out, a fair call on Bungies part for both is nerf it to the lowest extent if people begin to complain. (I will say controller has no chance of even being a thing in the PC version of Destiny if AA is taken out completely and I'm 100% positive Bungie wouldn't want a portion/percentage of players to quit because AA was taken out) Comparing it to console there is much less AA, if Bungie caters to the 1% of people complaining about it they will lose the best D2 experience for players. I know your post said controller vs MnK has nothing to do with this but I do think MOST PEOPLES PROBLEMS ARE THIS... (Not direct at OP) I do think you're getting outplayed by someone who has experience in Destiny itself. Most of these PC players have never played destiny until this beta and they're getting used to how the game is being played where someone who has experience has been playing much longer w/ a controller knows how to play the game smarter/better. AA is very low compared to console. Bungie nerfs things, they usually don't take it out completely so I think that's what MIGHT happen, I just don't see them taking AA out completely, it would ruin the game for a percentage/big portion of players.
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1 ReplyEdited by K1LLFACE: 8/30/2017 2:59:48 PMThe problem is not controller with aim assist vs M&K. The problem is people that will plug in their XIM4 which looks like a controller and then allows you to have aim assist on your mouse and keyboard. This simply should not be allowed and something needs to be done about it or it could seriously damage the future of this game on the pvp side.
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1 ReplyLet's be real - how many people will really exploit that? You will loose once a day maybe because of exploits. I don't really care. It's like people using mice on consoles - everyone is hating them, but they aren't that common. People are lazy by nature. Only some silly no lifes will bother.
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It took me around 30 min to emulate xinput for kb+m. Works fine. Not speaking about xim and other devices be loved by some "superior" console players. Definetly AA not suitable for PvP, but it should be left for PvE as it is. (Personally I play all PvE games with a controller, and it's good). GTA is a great example, where you can choose whether you want to play with aim assist people or not. But it will divide a pc community a little.
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1 ReplyMLG has controllers being used with aim assist and is both competitive and an even playing field. Simply having controllers with the necessary aim assist for analog sticks in no way de-ligitimazes the skill it takes to use them, MLG has pretty much proven that. Some people are really good with KB+M, some are really good with controllers. If you are consistently being beat by players with controllers, it is possible you might not be as good as you thought you were with KB+M and you underestimated other skilled players who use controllers.
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6 RepliesHonestly I do not see myself purchasing this game if it launches with Aim Assist for PC and I pre ordered the digital deluxe copy. But seeing this come up has been a huge let down for me personally.
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Edited by YobNobbler: 8/30/2017 6:51:24 PMMy purchase hinges on this problem. I've been an avid PC gamer for the last 20 years and have yet to play an FPS game where Aim-Assist has been Implemented to this extent. Please bungie this game seems really fun but if you don't at least tweak this Aim-assist so it's not so ridiculous I can't purchase your game. If you really want to keep it, split the PvP server options like in GTA V - People with Aim-assist turned on in PvP will only be paired with others that have AA turned on. I don't see it being a problem for PvE so you'd only have to split it for PvP
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100% agree. Something's a little borked with how the aim assist is implemented now and it just needs to be fixed to the point where XIM4 users aren't plugging my face with 9/10 shots across the damn map. My little bit of PvP I played I got absolutely DEMOLISHED because of people abusing the auto-aim. It's not THAT there's controller autoaim it's that it's TOO SEVERE. Autoaim was invented because controllers are inherently less accurate - it's about clipping enough velocity off of a stick movement smoothly enough that the person using that stick has enough time to react and pull their thumb off the stick or stop moving it before the reticle moves off a target. On a M/KB this isn't necessary because we don't have VELOCITY. Just adding my two cents to this whole thing. I 100% agree that AA either needs to be severely toned down, or removed completely from PvP.
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As someone whose left hand is a scarred, arthritic wreck, I'm fine with Bungie removing aim assist from the PC game, [b][i][u]as long as they announce that they're doing it BEFORE release day[/b][/i][/u]. I'll go find something else to do, because, as someone who played the aim assist-free PC versions of Halo and Halo 2, controller use without aim assist is a total cluster-blam!-. And no, I'm not going back to console hell again. I wouldn't wish that player base on anyone.
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Lmfao! To those of you saying console pleb, pc nerds, Xboners, PlayStation Master Race, Xbox Master Race, PC Master Race, etc. etc.......Seriously grow up
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Aim assistance should be removed entirely. Look At Siege, great example!
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Stfu lol
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Edited by Nineball2112: 8/30/2017 4:13:56 PM[quote] We're already seeing this with players who plug in controllers to add the aim assist to their M+KB play.[/quote] LOL! I didn't even know this was a thing. Man, people will take advantage of ANYTHING. The solution, like always, is to SEPARATE the sandbox for PvE and PvP, which of course, Bungie won't do.
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1 ReplyI should have recorded this throwing knife kill I made the other day. It looked about a foot off to the left and Bam guardian down. Lol
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1 ReplyEdited by Sipher Mashai: 8/30/2017 1:43:16 PMI totally get where this is coming from. It is really strong in the pvp on pc so if its removed outright then thats fair enough. For me, i don't like using keyboard and mouse in games on pc at all unless its an mmo or RTS. mostly due to the amount of times i broke my wrist that it is painful to use. and using a mouse with a wrist brace is also annoying as hell. I know based on that people will probably say. " play on console or stick to pvp" i have a fairly decent pc that makes me want to play it on pc. but this game has some powerful gear that only PVP gives. playing PvE and PvP isn't an option it was almost required. Though the game isn't super competitive. it used p2p. And depending on how many people buy it on pc. (usually the lowest platform when compared to consoles by numbers of people who purchased it) it might get dedicated servers. unless they have already. though bungie don't make many pc games. But of course most of my friends will only buy it on pc so i'll learn mouse and keyboard. what i would want then is recommendations for a decent mouse, and no Razer mice, there all fat , unergonomic and mouse wheels break to easy.
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There is some indication from this article that PC balancing around recoil and aiming is already going to be different than console. https://gamerant.com/destiny-2-console-pc-balance-separate/undefined To what extent AA is different isn't clear at the moment. I do like using the wired controller on the PC Beta rather than KB/mouse, so I wonder if they are afraid they will have a bad experience for those users. It seems like AA should be allowed in PvE when using a wired controller.
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6 RepliesController users from what I hear without aim assist don't stand a chance so saying it should be removed seems like just being a bad sport.(no offense) Also despite the advantages keyboard and mouses give for some(myself included) find them the keyboard in particular bulky and unwieldy and it ruins fps experiences for me. If I was to play on PC I would go for a controller based solely on it FEELING more comfortable.
