[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sketto Right, Duel Wield SMGs and do your little experiment there is no way that you would get perfect little circles, and compare that to the AR. Because right now comparing one SMG to the AR is laughable for how different the guns are and how different the games are that they are a part of. Ok you tested the shotgun from long-range, I don't see any tests from closer than that, and moving halfway closer would not make it point blank. So with your little picture you showed that the pellets would hit inside the reticule in a very low percentage when at long-range. Nothing revolutionary.[/quote] The only reason you won't get perfect rings with dual SMG's is because the muzzle climb will pull the rings up off their center as you fire. You may hit a few shots inside the former "ring" but overall the spread will still be wider, less shots will hit, and less damage will be dealt than with Halo 1's AR, The shotgun does not have a very low hit percentage at long range. It has a 0% hit percentage at mid-range. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baratos The auto aim would pull in the bullets so instead of them all hitting outside the reticule, they hit in the same pattern but shrunken to fit inside the reticule.[/quote] No, autoaim does not pull the bullets towards the center of reticle. In the blog, there is a screenshot of the SMG fired at an enemy target in split screen; the bullets form a ring around the player without hitting him. If auto-aim pulled them in the reticle, he would have been hit. With the AR, firing the same amount of rounds from the same distance on Battle Creak, he would have died or been left with 1-2 bars of health.

Maybe the SMG and such are so inaccurate in order to stop team killng? The auto aim would pull in the bullets so instead of them all hitting outside the reticule, they hit in the same pattern but shrunken to fit inside the reticule. I notice that in the 1up thing they show a spartan surrounded by bullet holes--did he move there after they shot? If so, then this isnt something to complain about--its a smart move to make betrayals harder.

weird

Right, Duel Wield SMGs and do your little experiment there is no way that you would get perfect little circles, and compare that to the AR. Because right now comparing one SMG to the AR is laughable for how different the guns are and how different the games are that they are a part of. Ok you tested the shotgun from long-range, I don't see any tests from closer than that, and moving halfway closer would not make it point blank. So with your little picture you showed that the pellets would hit inside the reticule in a very low percentage when at long-range. Nothing revolutionary.

I love the SMG and usually go into combat with one of them. why? because ones enough for me. and i can at least get one killing spree before i get assinated with only using one

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Storm 14 yea i know if you hold it in the muzzle rises but if you tap you have a better accuracy of hittin your target and it doesn't do the donut effect because and doesn't jump all over.[/quote] No, it DOES do the donut if you tap the trigger. The donut is the best possible accuracy you can get out of the SMG. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sketto This is ludicrous, the best kept secret is that a single smg is not effective? Is that biased thinking or biased research. It's not a stretch to assume that Bungie made that spread with a single smg so that it would encourage duel wielding. Because guess what...that was the new system that they where instilling.[/quote] The whole point of the dual-wield system was to allow the option between using melee and grenades as support, or a using a 2nd weapon. If you make the weapons so that they're useless on their own, then you're just forcing anyone picking up a one-handed weapon to dual-wield. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sketto Good job compare the spread with an AR to the spread of [b] ONE [/b] SMG, are you lacking, can you not understand the difference between the AR and the SMG? Please Duel Wield the SMG and then compare it, your bias is showing.[/quote] What dumbass, do you think dual-wielding 2 SMG's will actually make the accuracy better? No, firing 2 SMG's, the ring spread persists, and the weapons climb at double the speed. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sketto And yes shotgun is more effective at close range that was a BiiiiiG secret.[/quote] No, it's not more effective at close range, it's [i]only[/i] effective at close range, and that statement only stands if by "close range" you only mean "point blank". Anything beyond point-blank range, and the shotgun had almost no combat value whatsoever. Regardless of whether a weapon is specialized for close, mid, or long range, it should still be able to act with some moderate capability at other ranges. Putting donut spread on the shotgun or SMG is like making sniper rifle bullets disapear when they come out of the barrel and reapear after 20 meters so it can't kill at close range. Due to all it's other inherant properties, it's allready hard enough to use at close range as it is, give it magic disapearing bullets, and you're nerfing it beyond what is appropriate. If the Shotgun and SMG had some moderate mid-range capability, they would make good backup once you had obtained a power weapon like Rocket, Sword, or Sniper. As it is, they are still totally useless, even if the enemy has lost his shields to another weapon, unless he is at point blank range. Therefore, your top choice for backup weapon will be BR every time, unless you are playing a map made up of endless intertwining 3 foot corridors, and the game becomes even more BR-dominant than Halo 1 was Pistol-dominant.

Good article...

thats a big pile of wank, but nothing new. i wouldn't say testing the SMG from the top of one base to the bottom of another is a worthwhile experience; regardless of the donut effect, its never meant to be shot at that range. maybe, just maybe, the plasma rifle and magnum dont have this effect. would it mean SMG+ PR or Mag is a good idea? maybe! oh wait. that's dual wielding.

Talking SMG here, how many people burst, really, in a way you make "donuts". And the SMG works well in SP/No shield games, I played TOP with SMG's and it was 4x as fun as shotties, Maybe I will make a zombies with SMG's. Shotgun sucks, but when it works it's powerfull, 1 shot kill, sword killer, etc...again if it works PLAY TowerOfPower WITH SMG!!!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] atomic weggie This is not new news. The fact is the SMG was created to be duel wielded. It was never intended to be a good mid range weapon by itself. It was meant to be a compliment to the magnum or plasma rifle, which fire in a direct line. Alone the SMG sucks. Together with a plasma rifle or magnum, it is very effective.[/quote]A weapon not effective on it's own should never be in a game ;)[quote]I also don't understand why you brought up the shotgun. Of course it's a close range weapon. It's a buckshot. The further you are from the target, the less buck particles hit your target. Same with the SMG.[/quote]You missed the point - It hits nothing in the center of the circle, only the outside. "Donut spread" means the area in the center is untouched.

[i] psst... the shot gun, and the smg, are close range wepons.... [/i] although i have read about (in halo 3 forum) that people wanted to add scopes to the shot gun... [Edited on 11/20/2006]

thats what i said

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Storm 14 yea i know if you hold it in the muzzle rises but if you tap you have a better accuracy of hittin your target and it doesn't do the donut effect because and doesn't jump all over.[/quote] It [i]does[/i] do the donut effect. You can't keep the gun in the same place to create the donut if you don't tap. Try it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] atomic weggie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RustBandit [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mvenus Good job on figuring out that shotguns and smgs are not long range wepons. :D[/quote] I am disturbed that the shotgun couldn't kill a kitten from a distance of more than 15 feet :P[/quote] Do...you...normally think about killing kittens? Please, lay on the couch and tell me about your mother. [/quote]Who doesn't? What could be a more pleasurable activity? What could be more satisfying? Everybody's doing it! It's an inside joke, calm down. Read my signature, and you'll find out why I don't think Halo 2's hostgun will be a reliable weapon when there are kittens to be shot with all the amount of retards posting in the Halo 3 forum. Yes, it's a constant slaughterfest of furious feline fury. At this rate, we're wiping out at least two species of the furry critters each day.

yea i know if you hold it in the muzzle rises but if you tap you have a better accuracy of hittin your target and it doesn't do the donut effect because and doesn't jump all over.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Storm 14 although now that i see how there's a donut effect from it and the SMG just tap the trigger and you wont have that problem. [/quote] That IS when you tap the trigger. If you hold it the muzzle climbs.

well the shotgun isn't a long range weapon and at point blank its instant death so i mean i dont have a problem with the shotgun although now that i see how there's a donut effect from it and the SMG just tap the trigger and you wont have that problem. Nice find though

This is ludicrous, the best kept secret is that a single smg is not effective? Is that biased thinking or biased research. It's not a stretch to assume that Bungie made that spread with a single smg so that it would encourage duel wielding. Because guess what...that was the new system that they where instilling. Good job compare the spread with an AR to the spread of [b] ONE [/b] SMG, are you lacking, can you not understand the difference between the AR and the SMG? Please Duel Wield the SMG and then compare it, your bias is showing. And yes shotgun is more effective at close range that was a BiiiiiG secret.

This is the biggest flaw in the game. The distance the shotgun shoots is directly relevent to the distance other guns shoot. (in a video game sence)So close range is determined by shotgun, mid by AR, long by the sniper. Now in real life terms a shotgun has to be accurate at 40 yards to even be considered for our current US military contract. At 50 yards a shotgun will still cripple someone. 50 yards in halo is a BR fight. 100 yards is a sniper shot. Current accurate range of fire for the US military sniper is one mile. Its not the guns that suck, (well kinda) but that bungie decreased the range so maps like lockout and midship are playable. How far is 50 yards in halo? base to base on middy? sniper to br on lockout? [Edited on 11/20/2006]

I. Don't. Care.

Yes I've done it with the smg many times. It's wacky huh.

I don't find what they say about the SMG to be true. I can get that gun to be almost near percise at medium range.

Oh crap, now the secret's out. Won't be long before my friends figure out why I do so well with shotgun. -GR01

The issue is not that the guns are not meant to be long range, heavens no Im fine with that. The issue lies with the fact that the weapons punish accurate aiming. Yes it is true what those pictures hold about the differences between the guns. The halo 2 SMG fires rounds along the outer ring of the recticle. If you fire extememely slow as to not trigger the recoil you will see this quite clearly. It effectively generates a ring of damage that needs to be completely filled with a target to ensure effective damage. Same with the shotgun. The rounds do not go straight forward to any degree. They merely go along the outer ring of the recticle and outside of it. These guns punish the correct aiming of them by delivering no rounds down the middle. Even the classic AR was more accurate than that when pulsed. With the SMg it's impossible. This however does lead to the rise to what I like to call half assed aiming. Where if you aim to the left or right of a target the spread goes in such a pattern that it will actually deal more damage than aiming stright at the target. This comes in handy with shotgun matches but with the extreme auto aim of halo 2 it makes effective (half assing) with the SMG impossible.

Wow

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] atomic weggie ...Alone the SMG sucks. Together with a plasma rifle or magnum, it is very effective....[/quote] I agree.