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10/29/2014 9:27:56 AM
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Sup Bungie, You know, looking at old quotes, at design documentaries, at -blam!-ing everything that existed about this game prior to launch, I can not shake the feeling that I keep playing this because I wish I was playing that. I bought into the Destiny "dream". A Halo, but persistent, and bigger, much bigger. With gear, and classes and specializations. I bought into the "epic" and into "becoming legend". And I am not going to lie, as much as I might complain about what's wrong here, I do not hate this game. -blam!-, I have Bayonetta 2 in its wrapper and a huge backlog, and yet, I keep playing your game. And I do it mostly because it reminds me of the things I liked about you, and about your games. And it made a great first impression, too. There are puddles of Tang and things are colorful, skyboxes are gorgeous, art and modelling are top notch. I can say there are few things that come close. Your world is not brown. Its not Black, or dark green. For all the gloom of the darkness, your world is gloriously colorful. Full of life and promise. -blam!-, just today, doing a mission, I wandered into an area of Venus that is not used for anything. And probably will never be. In it, there is a pillar and some very interesting architecture that, having seen the rest of the game, exists nowhere else. Just like that cave in the coast in Russia. Or all the nooks and crannies in Mars and the moon. And I keep hoping to find something, for something to happen. To find some plot, some fun, some vehicles, some interesting weapons. My whole journey through your game my breath was held for the moment I'd hit the content we both know you can do, and which you have done in the past. "-blam!-, I can't wait till we ride those tanks", I told my brother in one of our first sessions after tackling the Devil's Lair strike at level 7 or so, picking at the health of the Devil Walker with our rifles. We didn't even have heavy weapons yet. But we wanted to explore and see your world and checking the strike seemed more interesting than carrying on, and -blam!-, it took a while but we killed that tank and that black ball. And we soldiered on. We soldiered on until we found ourselves looking at each other with incredulity after the Black Garden mission. Surely something was wrong. No way the game is done. What about Rasputin? And about the hive, and the moon, and the shards? What about Venus? and about the Reef? We thought that, like in many other games, something would change in the post game and we'd find some answers, plot, a story, -blam!-, anything. Your game doesn't start until 20 and we were 18 or so. So we made 20. We saw your real game: Endless -blam!-ing grind for gear that never drops. 300 patrols or 30 repetitive bounties to be able to buy gear that might let us get close to the one Raid you got. Then endless hours spinning in circles to get the materials to upgrade them. And endlessly repeating the same missions which play in much the same ways to get the shards and coins for them. Is this the real game? The game that starts at 20? -blam!-ing seriously? From the guys that gave us ice levels where we'd skate around with our warthogs playing born to be wild, while our little random marine bros filled any spare slots? From the guys that crafted an entire enemy faction with its own weapons and vehicles you could use? -blam!-, remember the Banshees? I remember. What about the Tank level? What about running on warthogs while the Halo falls apart? What about the epicness, the point, the fleshed distinctive factions, the localized damage (remember blowing up chunks of hive in Halo? Pilgrims pride remembers), the interesting weapons, the characters, the sense of exploration, the variety, and so on? Remember back when you blew our mind with that night vision level? What about how you gave us marine bros who'd act like we were Gods and who'd we'd go out of our way to save? Wanna know something funny? We reloaded our saves and repeated every mission until not a single marine died. We felt bad when the array blew up, and with that them. But -blam!-, that world felt so alive. Where are the other guardians? Where is the mission variety? Why do I seldom feel more alone than when playing your online persistent game? Why does it feel like playing by myself, even though there is people all around. Why do we need to go to random websites to make groups, to have a guild, to see what little lore you saw fit to put in there, etc? You said the game started at 20. So where is it? I could tell you of how we used to joke that the ability to talk with our team in our crucible was in DLC. I could tell you of how we stood in front of a cave reloading once in a while. I could tell you of hours spent running in circles looking for shiny green lights. I could tell you of getting shards after a nightfall, and getting chatterwhite after chatterwhite. But I think you know. And I think these days, you laugh anyways. And I am not going to lie, I am disappointed. Your however many year project which would be the end all be all of all projects is nothing but a random reinforcement schedule Skinner box where we peck for hours hoping for a reward which might, or might not ever come. And its not that you don't have it in you anymore. -blam!-, the raid is great. Roles are great. Strategy is great. You did not lie when you said it would be taxing and fun, and difficult. And I can't understand why the rest of the game is not like that. Why every mission consists of waiting on dinklebot to open doors. Why there is little weapon variety, and vehicles are pretty much only a memory. Why there is no story, or plot, or why you didn't even see fit to name your characters. But I do have a problem with the way you are doing things. I have a problem with you stating you'll fix the reasons we stood in front of a cave in the first place while really changing nothing much. And with you replacing strategy and tactics in the Raid with a RNG because -blam!- it, we need more of those. I have a problem with there being no rewards, or sense of advancement, or anything to see, or do, or explore. I have a problem with you treating us like idiots, calling things "bugs" when its clear they were not, calling things "new content" and "exciting events" when you are just giving us the same shit in exactly the same way. Bungie? You are -blam!-ing up. Most of your game is not fun. Its tedious. We get it, you didn't want us to stand in front of a cave firing mindlessly. How the -blam!- are you cool with us running in circles for hours ocassionally pressing X to harvest this or that or open chests in a ghost town where its nigh impossible to distinguish real people from what might as well be bots in any other game. How the -blam!- are you cool with replacing tactics with RNG? How the -blam!- are you cool with prolonging things not with difficulty and interesting gameplay, but with endless tedium? How the -blam!- are you cool with booting people to a 2 minute or so loading screen when they fail a nightfall, which basically consists of going from safe spot to safe spot? And when the -blam!- did you decide that designing content where you stand in a room or corner taking potshots every 10 seconds or so for 10 minutes was hard? Or fun? Remember Halo, and 2, and 3, and Reach? Those were great -blam!-ing games. There was no RNG, and they lived for a long, long time. -blam!-, they are being released again. And they will be great. Bungie? You don't need to toss all this random shit in the pie. You don't need to artificially gate what little content you have. You don't need to make everything so -blam!-ing tedious. You knew this. You know this. The legacy of Halo and Marathon and Myth continues not because it took hours of running in circles to experience the interesting parts. But because the games were fun. And interesting. And hard. You need a lot more of that. And a lot less of /b/. You like saying you listen. So do. People can, and will get tired of this bullshit. You need but look at all the franchises that have fallen off the side never to be seen again. You can do better than that. You can do better than this. So do. Quit with all the random bullshit. Throw some interesting triggers in all those caves and locations where nothing happens. Give us events with rewards and meaning and variety. And stop treating us like idiots while at it. Give us a lot more Vault. And a lot less "too busy to tell us why you are too busy to tell us." You want this to last ten years. So do we. Kind regards, A long time fan.
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  • Bump

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  • Bumping for great truth

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  • i would have to say that i agree with most every point in this post. but think about this too, the whole games story was rewritten maybe a year total before it was going to come out, at the same time this happened the lead writer for destiny (also the lead write for the bungie halo games) left bungie. i just want to know what this game could have been at the very least if the original story had stayed in place. i honestly feel as though we would have gotten all the things this post says the game lacks.

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  • "Quit with the random... Throw in triggers..." Agreed

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  • This might be the best thing I have read all day. Thanks.

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  • BUMP

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  • Bump. Great response. Would be nice to hear from Deej or bungie on if theyre stille reading this.

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  • Super Bump for the truth

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  • This. Bungie I just saved a forum post to a word doc because this man's words sum up every proper frustration I've ever felt about this great perhaps that you have created. Read it to the team. Put it on a wall. Then talk to us.

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  • Almost didn't read... Very long, but worth it. Agreed.

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  • BUMP x 1000

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  • @BNG, you might want to print this out and tack it up somewhere. I didn't even know the game had ended when we finished! I asked my buddy why we started doing something else LOL

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  • This needs to be read out loud to the entire Bungie team. It really does.

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  • Bump

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  • Great response. Well worth the time and consideration to read. It is posts like this, from longtime supporters of the company, that show what a legacy Bungie had built up with their previous games, and how Destiny feels like such departure from what I generally considered the bar for great console FPS. For your, and all our sake, I do hope the very prevalent issues and concerns get addressed, because if not then Bungie is playing a dangerous game with its fanbase. The viability of not just this franchise, but also any future products and franchises, hinges on support and positive feedback. That feedback and support comes from the people that do stick around, title after title, and keep purchasing and playing the games long after the newer titles release from other developers. However, when longtime fans and supporters feel neglected and betrayed, then all the promises, hotfixes and patches will matter very little once they've decided to move on and the consequence can be measured, literally, in dollars and cents.

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  • Very well said

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  • Dang I wish I could unread that. I think I will enjoy Destiny a little less now. Great post.

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  • Just check out this article. m.ign.com/articles/2014/10/29/why-bungie-changed-destinys-atheon-encounter

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  • I've only played the first Halo but your post still rings true. Destiny is enjoyable for what it is but it is not what was advertised nor has it reached it's full potential. Bungie, help us to help you because if the end result is that great game we all saw/keep on seeing in it's concept form then everybody wins.

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  • Thank you for this post!

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  • Why do you keep comparing this game to Halo? Halo was great for what it was, but it was a linear game. The game didn't need RNG because they set you on a path and made you walk down that path. Halo didn't have you upgrading weapon or armor either. The only similarity between Destiny and Halo is that they're both in space. If you think it's so easy to design a game that will appeal to a broad audience and keep them playing and do so without an RNG mixed in, you would be a millionaire in a heart beat. Look at the most popular MMO in history, WoW. That game is also based on you doing quests, raiding for loot that uses RNG, and farming mats. I understand the complaint about the random teleport thing. I agree with it. I don't agree with your comparison of a linear game not meant to evolve to a game that is built on the idea that it can be improved upon with updates. RNG is necessary to keep people coming back for more. I'm not trying to defend Bungie. The story is weak and whatnot, but blaming RNG for ruining your experience is a bit overboard.

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  • Edited by FancyWalkin: 10/29/2014 6:48:03 PM
    WoW does use an RNG system but the RNG is based on specific events. A certain boss will drop one 0f twenty predetermined items thanks to RNG, while Destiny is RNG across the board. You can get a -blam!-ing exotic from a normal strike, then play the vault and get 7 ascendant shards and chatterwhite (true story was a sad day) EDIT: Also the comparison between Halo and Destiny (at least in this post) is not of the gameplay or its mechanics but more about its content, storyline, presentation. In these aspects Halo was a vastly better showcasing of what Bungie could and did accomplish in telling a story and creating a world that Destiny just feels void of.

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  • Yes, the RNG in WoW is better, but it's still there. As far as the comparison goes, my point is that Halo, like any other game that's campaign is not meant to be MMO, is linear. You can craft a far more complete story when there's a beginning, middle, end. In MMO's, this is not the case. What Destiny needs is sidequests that adds depth to the Destiny universe. Maybe that will be something they add later on in some free DLC. Still, I would say that people are too quick to jump the gun when it comes to complaints about an MMO's lack of story when it's built for console. This is a relatively new concept because console MMO's are pretty few and developers are constrained by the PSN or Xbox entities which may dictate how much space that game is allowed to take. We're not dealing with computers with terabyte drives that you can add on to by just slotting in another drive in a bay. What I do agree on is the lack of depth of what was given to us already. Everyone jokes about the line "I'm too busy to tell you why I'm too busy." It does really show a lack of creative script writing and story telling.

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  • I do agree with a lot of what you said... [quote]What Destiny needs is sidequests that adds depth to the Destiny universe. Maybe that will be something they add later on in some free DLC.[/quote] ... especially this. But saying that an MMO made for a console is new technology, while somewhat true, is not an excuse. Diablo 3 (while I suppose you could argue the PC release suffered because of...) seems to be a vastly superior game (seems to implying haven't played it yet.) They have more content, more online features, more exploration, etc. etc. The RNG system is terribly executed. RNG is fine if its done right. Like in WoW.

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  • bump!

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