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Editado por jhermannITJ:
1/13/2025 12:46:33 PM
5
@Bungie Narrative Team... #9682, Ikora... she knew.
[url=https://destiny.wiki.gallery/images/thumb/a/a5/Guseva_C.jpg/525px-Guseva_C.jpg]Guseva C[/url]
When I made that years ago, I was going through it... never thought it would get this far.
What brought me here?
Ikora's communication protocols...
You need to know what the picture looks like before you can draw it.
Ikora's been spying on us from the beginning. It's her records. We have a tag. Everyone important has a tag.
VIP#XXXX is the protocol.
Who's #9862?
Well, I searched it...
They're connected to that gun. Arecibo.
Lol, I am going to get it from the "scholars" for this 😉.
I was looking for Mara's tag. It led me to that gun. That's not her tag... I want to be a 100% clear on that.
I'm going to quote some stuff now, tell me if you can figure it out:
[i]"4. According to ERI-223's account, during the time between the Tangled Shore crisis and the discovery of the lunar Pyramid, VIP #0704 was in contact with VIP #0101 regarding the approaching intruders. VIP #0101, familiar with the difficulties of recursing time loops, urged #0704 to break out of the Dreaming City and move against the intruders. In #0101's past timeline or timelines (I am not convinced she has been entirely truthful about how she moves between times; would make sense for her to protect her method of transit, given the scale of betrayal she has witnessed), the Awoken never broke SAV's curse on the Dreaming City, and #0704 expended vital resources there, which were sorely missed during the later stages of the conflict.
5. VIP #0704 was reluctant to leave her people, but decided, as ERI-223 put it, "that it was better to do something than nothing, even if that something was the wrong thing." VIP #0704 struck a deal with #0101: #0101 would provide data that a future Rasputin had used to track the intruder ships, and #0704 would provide the raw paracausal power that Rasputin lacked. ERI-223 was involved because #0704 had recently extracted her from Crota's abandoned throne world, and felt an emotional debt to #0704 over past service regarding the defeat of VIP #2015. This was fortuitous.
6. VIP #0704 exploited past traffic with the Nine as well as her own personal experience with the intruders' stealth capabilities to disperse an array of "synthetic aperture mass growl observatories" coordinated by AI-COM/XBLK and possibly other deep-orbit AI systems. The observatories used future technology provided by #0101 to localize an interloper ship near the dwarf planet 136199 Eris. ERI-223 was not amused by this coincidence. (I induce she was actually quite disturbed).
7. VIP #0704 refused to deploy any Awoken fleet assets or Fallen mercenaries in the confrontation, and even excluded her own Techeuns from the planning. ERI-223 suggests, with what I view as some protectiveness, that #0704 felt it was time for the burden of sacrifice to fall on her rather than upon her citizens or pawns.
The journey to 136199 Eris was very difficult for ERI-223. VIP #0704 had charged herself with some metaphysical quality salvaged from VIP #2015 , which made it extremely difficult. for Eris to tolerate her presence. VIP #0704 was reticent and snappish; probably lingering trauma from her death in the similar battle at Saturn. Whatever transpired between them remains private.
8. ERI-223 was unwilling to precisely describe the encounter with the intruder. It did not react to their presence as they matched orbits. VIP #0704 went on EVA and at one point removed her suit, I believe, but am not certain, that #0704 either contacted or entered the intruder. Whatever happened next led to VIP
#0704's death. It is unclear to me whether the intruder was at all damaged, or whether the debris field I saw on the surface of 136199 Eris was related to this encounter.
9. ERI-223 recalled VIP #0704 from her throne by Hive ritual, which required both women to confront SAV/INCAR at great personal risk. The two then descended to the surface of Eris to explore the wreckage there. There was an incident (it may have been an attack, or an accident caused by volatile debris or by interaction with 136199 Eris's frozen methane surface), and ERI-223 was badly wounded. Although ERI 223 has techniques to survive in hostile environments, they were disrupted and she was exposed to near-vacuum. VIP #0704 deployed a shelter and treated the wounds in what I interpolate was a moment of reconciliation and perhaps genuine tenderness between them. ERI-223 attempted to show me the scar, although I declined.
At this point, concerned that they might not survive to make a report, ERI-223 imprinted a log of their journey on a fragment of debris and transmitted it to Luna via Hive manifold, along with a compulsion for any lesser Hive to bring the fragment to a Guardian. This is how it came to me.
10. I am left with more questions. Was the presence of a debris field on the surface totally unrelated to the ship in orbit? If it was related, did VIP #0704 destroy it; and if so, why has she not shared this capability with us? Faced with the skepticism and distrust of so many Guardians (a distrust that has persisted despite #0101's reports that in multiple possible futures, #0704 died fighting alongside our forces in the final reckoning), surely #0704 would want to advertise her victory. If she did destroy that Pyramid ship, was it a one-off event that she will be unable to reproduce? Perhaps she has to physically contact a Pyramid to destroy it, and the Pyramids have now rendered this impossible. Or perhaps she approached in the disguise of VIP #2015, a disguise which is now compromised. VIP #0704 remains a difficult and inscrutable ally".[/i]
#0704 Mara Sov
[i][b]Ikora, "One stone can change the whole landscape of the board".[/b][/i]
Schwarzschild
Ikora, [b]"O, Traveler. I see now"![/b]
[i]"ILLUMINATION: LIGHT AND DARKNESS MANIFEST
It all comes together. The erratic Ghosts. Ransom's grudge. The psychometer and Glykon Volatus and Nasino Island and the go game with Zavala and the sacred void and the silence of the Light and even the Drifter's Ghost.
It all means one thing. Darkness remembers. Light forgets.
It is about memory. Memory and forgiveness".[/i]
[u]Note for Mods:[/u] This is really frustrating... "Nasino" is not the name and it's referring to the Nasino Tragedy in 1933 on the island. Not the link imbedded on the Ishtar Collective's website. The root of the moniker is a censored word, and it is related to the conflicts in WWII. "S" is supposed to be a different letter. [u]Should this get flagged, all I'm trying to do is quote the "Hidden Dossier" here:[/u]
[url=https://www.destinypedia.com/The_Hidden_Dossier#.28.28057.29.29]57[/url]
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[quote]7. VIP #0704 refused to deploy any Awoken fleet assets or Fallen mercenaries in the confrontation, and even excluded her own Techeuns from the planning. ERI-223 suggests, with what I view as some protectiveness, that #0704 felt it was time for the burden of sacrifice to fall on her rather than upon her citizens or pawns.[/quote] Because of your theory and opinions on Mara Sov this passage likely doesn’t mean anything to you, but this is what I like about the gradual evolution of Mara Sov from Savathûn’s mirror to a person who allows her feelings into consideration. And how was her plan disrupted? [url=https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/tyrannocide-v]Tyrannocide V[/url] [quote]Somewhere, Uldren roars defiance. This is the moment of absolute sacrifice, the incarnation of Awoken doom: to give up their lives in defense of the world they once abandoned. The sense of their great dying rips at Mara like a sob. She feels her Techeuns preparing emergency selfgates. Shuro Chi reaches out to her—a wordless, urgent need for Mara to live—and it takes all the cold impassive remove of Mara's millennia to turn that hand away. The shockwave strikes.[/quote] [url=https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/reverie-dawn-casque]Reverie Dawn Helmets[/url] [quote]But soon may not be soon enough, because Oryx roams the hallowed spires and melancholy shores of the Dreaming City. He stands looking out over the mists of her beautiful creation, and he laughs. She can feel him there like a thorn in the meat of her palm. She scolds herself for not factoring Shuro Chi's love into her design. Then she berates herself for this nervous energy, this fretful self-cannibalism.[/quote] Shuro Chi had an emotional reaction due to not knowing death was part of Mara’s plan, letting Oryx into the Dreaming City. Precisely the same issue with Uldren, who knew nothing of the plan at all. Riven was able to manipulate him using the connection he had with Mara, convincing him the Awoken had betrayed her and locked her away. The Curse on the Dreaming City is the eternal price of Mara’s previous attitude. Had Crow not chosen to embrace his past life, his absence would be added to that price. Stuff like this is why Taken King, despite being such an early expansion and not being perfect, feels like such a worthwhile moment in the Destiny timeline. Same with Forsaken. And it’s why Herm isn’t wrong when he says Mara is a core pillar of the overarching story. We just have vastly different opinions as to why, and it boils down to this. Herm, as I’ve said before, your overarching theory requires tearing down all of these iterative steps of character development and years of investment just to say “Surprise, it was all an act!”. 9 months of that with Savathûn/Osiris is the most I can see that sort of con going on for, because there it wasn’t a ‘Oh, all the character development we got for Osiris was worthless’, it was a ‘Oh, this was actually character establishment for Savathûn.’ And that twist was so well written and foreshadowed some people had figured it out in Hunt, being treated as madmen and then Chosen came out, more people (myself included) hopped on the bandwagon. By Splicer, it wasn’t in any doubt.
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2 RespuestasEditado por LikwiD_SmOkE22: 1/14/2025 11:37:23 PMThis was meant for another post
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22 RespuestasWhen someone cant tell you what they are talking about and acts like it’s up to you to figure out what they are alluding to, they are just wasting your time and don’t have anything solid.
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45 RespuestasEditado por jhermannITJ: 1/13/2025 12:26:25 PM[b]Cont: It is about memory. Memory and forgiveness.[/b] [i]"The prisoner's dilemma. A relic of the days of the high carceral system. Two criminals are interrogated in separate cells. Who committed the crime? Tell us. Tell us the other one did it, and we'll let you go. If both stay silent, both will get a year in jail. (The common good.) If one blames the other, the rat goes free and the other gets 10 years. (One winner. One loser.) If both rat out the other, both get five years in jail. (Common failure.) The only choice an individual prisoner has is to stay silent (cooperate) or blame the other (defect). Together, their two choices make four outcomes. Naïve rationality, which was the assumption in the first days of behavior theory, always leads to the common failure. Always. Both prisoners blame each other and go to jail for five years. No other outcome is possible. This is why: A prisoner who stays silent (cooperates) suffers a year in jail if the other cooperates; 10 years in jail if the other turns. Possible outcomes: one year or 10 years. A prisoner who turns on the other (defects) goes free if the other cooperates, or gets five years in jail if the other also turns. Possible outcomes: zero years or five years. No matter what one prisoner does, the other benefits from turning on their ally. So both players will rationally defect, and rationally doom each other to five years in prison. Even though each might have escaped with just one year if they cooperated. By acting to seek the selfish best, they deny themselves the global best. Of course, a child can see the failures of this model. What about honor among thieves? What about the punishments criminals inflict on the tattletale? What about "decent people don't turn on each other"? Later developments in behavior theory call these influences "externalities" because they are not described by the rules of the game alone".[/i] •••• [i]"Now we turn to evolution. The rule that made us all. Evolution is not a simple zero-sum fight to the death. It has room for cooperation and coexistence. But it ultimately rewards systems that perpetuate their own survival. It is a local optimizer, like the players in the prisoner's dilemma. It only cares about who is ahead now. It is impossible for evolution to reward those who sacrifice themselves for others—evolution can only reward those who benefit from the sacrifice. And the winners don't carry the self-sacrifice gene. The only altruism that evolves under these rules is the -blam!--for-tat exchange: I will help you if you help me. (Witness the gopher, infected by an alarm gene, shouting warnings about a predator, dooming itself to be eaten so that relatives who share the alarm gene can scurry to safety. Or the worker ant, which cannot reproduce except by helping its queen survive. Both ultimately act in their own self-interest. Or at least in the interest of a gene.) It is possible for evolution to reward altruism given to other altruists. If there is a reliable way to identify other altruists, communities of altruists can flourish. But then comes the specter of the free rider. The cheat that can fake the "I am an altruist" signal long enough to get the reward. (How much of your life have you spent wondering whether that kind, compassionate person is truly good? Or if they just do it to get ahead?) Some thinkers believe that all of morality is a race between the true altruist and the counterfeit. The true altruist finds new tests for true altruism. The counterfeit invents new cheats. This is called a Red Queen's Race, for reasons I don't know. In a Red Queen's Race, racers must compete just to stay in the same place. Not to gain advantage but simply to hold on to what they have in the face of competitors. Parasites are a perfect example. Living organisms must constantly evolve new defenses; parasites and cancers constantly evolve to defeat them. The body is a treasure trove of energy to steal, and the body's systems for preventing parasites and cancer are a form of internal morality. (The Red Queen's Race may even be why -blam!- evolved. Constantly remixing genes is a good way to change up defenses. Of course, the Red Queen's Race is not the only theory that explains the need to constantly adapt—but never mind!) In evolution, the only good is self-interested good. But we are not restricted by evolution. We have minds. We have memories and imaginations and culture. We can imagine the consequences of our actions and select those which suit a world we want to live in. We can do this without waiting for generations of genetic change. We can enshrine the common good as a norm. We can say, "Everyone who cooperates is good, and everyone who defects is evil, and evil defectors will be harshly punished." We can say, "By cooperating for the greatest common good, we will all be elevated, so let's do that." Only— What do we do with our cooperative good when we meet someone who defects? A neighboring village steals our crops. A friend has us paint his roof, but he is always too busy to come paint ours. A lover shares all our secrets with a gossip. A colleague takes all the credit for a shared project. Do we hold to our ethics and keep on cooperating? Tending our crops? Painting his roof? Telling our secrets? Watch others get a promotion? Are we, in short, going to be a sucker? Most people would agree we must retaliate. We must answer defection with defection. So the prisoner's dilemma is not just restricted to evolution. Even the cognitive must play it. It is a good model of any situation where what is good for the individual is not the same as what is good for the group".[/i]
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3 Respuestas
Architect MindNot much of an NPC - antiguos
To play a game of changing faces and trust... ((Among us much)) When NPC's start to realize they're in a redundant/recursive universe, and start creating their own stories, their own enemies... You see the technique with Ikora... You see the technique with Savvy... You see the technique with Mara... You can see it with Aksis...(Though just wants to remain the enemy, change name perhaps) You could...how many defeated enemies come back...so they know the extent of the reality...
