I get balancing. It's a necessary part of a game like Destiny, and I appreciate that the developers are constantly working on tweaking the game to make it fair, especially with regard to PvP. That being said, Bungie has added an awful "balancing" mechanic to hand cannons that is utterly unfair and makes them inconsistent to use. I understood when they decreased the distance for damage fall-off. Hand cannons are not meant to be scout rifles. I disagreed with some of the changes around ammo, but I understood the thinking, wanting wielders to be more deliberate with their shots. But to add RNG accuracy to each one of my shots? How does that reward a patient and deliberate player? How does that reward someone who has honed their skill and reflexes, and learned to control the recoil pattern? It seems like someone at Bungie dislikes hand cannons, or at least dislikes their pervasiveness. I just don't understand why. You created a really cool weapon class with tons of cowboy character, which creates huge satisfaction when clutch, accurate, hard hitting shots are made. These are single bullet guns which rely on accuracy, not spread shotguns. When I aim, my single bullet can go anywhere around a certain radius of where I've place my sight. How then can I be deliberate with my attack? Should I just spam willy-nilly in the general direction of my opponent? Is that the way Bungie intended hand cannons to be used? I doubt that was the original vision. Damage fall-off should be the main variable, though you could even play with the zoom of the ADS and the size of the hitbox at range, or even add more aggressive recoil. But to throw an RNG roll on each bullet I shoot as to whether or not the bullet will go where I aimed it (including within the intended range, see video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ24eDTg_s4 by iAM - tripleWRECK), is wholly unfair and borderline game-breaking. Please reconsider this Bungie. This is not a good answer to your supposed problem with hand cannons. RNG should never be a part of aiming.
If you agree with my statements above, please say so. If you don't, also say so and say why. Try to keep the discussion civil so we can actually hear each other's side.
I would like to submit this post as a petition. Please answer the poll to voice your opinion as well. Just trying to show Bungie that people are actually concerned with this mechanic.
Edit: I'd like to thank everyone for the great discussion and the vast majority of you keeping things civil. I'm glad there is interest in tjis issue, and I'm glad intelligent points were voiced from both sides. Cheers guardians!
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I agree. Some people need to seriously get over their PTSD from year one hand cannons.
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Another reminder to Bungie that this needs to be fixed.
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Signed: but with some side opinion. Outright removal? Bloom in general is fine, just the way it's highly exagerated on hand cannons is god aweful annoying. In the real world, over distance, bullets do not fly perfectly straight and can change path in flight due to wind and air resistance. However they also do not come magically out of the gun at such weird angles, and firing rapidly doesn't make them change trajectory more harshly, recoil is merely pushing your aim offcenter. If they wanted people to pace their shots for longer ranges, they should have done something with recoil, not crank the bloom mechanic to 11 and hope no one would get mad about RNG bullets.
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See the statement from Bungie: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/212825953/0/0 Anyone who has EVER shot a pistol knows they're good for short range engagements only. It's a 4" barrel for Christ's sake. What do you expect? Well done Bungie for using "real world" use cases behind your in game weapons! I can't believe the amount of -blam!-ing cry babies in these forums. Petition for this, petition for that. How about you take the game for what it is and go suck an egg if you don't like it?
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Modificato da Sideswipe: 9/28/2016 3:08:02 PMThis video sh[i]i[/i]ts all over that garbage, propoganda piece that Triple Wreck put out, and really shows the limits of HCs. Watch it and you'll see that [i][b]range[/b][/i] is the issue, not bloom. HCs can use a slight a range increase before the cone widens, but removal of bloom is a recipe for disaster.
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Modificato da BRAZACK: 9/30/2016 2:03:35 AMIdk about you guys but since roi launched jade rabbit and hung jury(my two main scouts) seem a bit off. Idk if bungie did a little ninja nerf to scout rifles but not all my shots land where im aiming. I do agree bullet rng on hcs is bs. i stopped using hcs ever since the bs nerfs. My new weapon was scouts but now they seem a bit off. Maybe im going crazy idk but i was surprised nobody was talking about this.
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Modificato da IIIIIIIIIIIIIII-: 9/29/2016 5:23:23 PMI cannot support your petition. My hand cannons work just fine. Maybe because I use gunslinger with chain of woe and trance. Maybe because I use a customized scuf controller that costs as much as ps4 box. Maybe because I invested years into FPS games before I started playing Destiny. But yeah, ghost bullets crap has to be removed if it exists. It's illogical to have RNG to direct bullets. It's plain stupid, Bungle, add SBMM lag to the equation I doubt you consistently place 3 headshots to the damn redbar's head.
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If you don't spam shots and stay in range AND don't use a shit cannon without a range perk then they work just fine. But those three things are crucial
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Remove ghost bullets full stop, for every weapon.
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Modificato da JungleofTaxemes: 9/28/2016 11:23:49 AMAccuracy problems need to go. At the end of the day, if you play this game as a proper 1% player HCs will be the optimal choice. Aerial place and cover dipping are good FPS habits and they get rewarded. Other primaries need to be buffed so HC users with BAD habits die. If you're both standing out of cover, an auto user should melt a HC user. Because an auto needs you to be out of cover to do damage. A HC doesn't. Right now the HC wins unless RNG slaps them in the face, and this is a symptom of why the game feels so bad at the minute. Auto rifles need to do 1.5x damage on a headshot instead of 1.25x, like all other primaries. They did this nerf as an overreaction. Pulse rifles need to go back to 2.0 damage. They did this nerf as an overreaction. The scout rifles that are terrible (the inward lamp, uncharged tlaloc) need to be removed from the game and replaced by the MIDA archetype, which also needs a buff. This is so they can actually compete with pulses. Then primaries are worth using. They need to make it so that anyone who doesn't play without making a single mistake, gets punished for using HCs. And the only way to do that while making HCs still work, is to finally buff primaries. This also deals with the special meta. No, this won't make the game cod. This game needs TTKs that are in between halo and cod because we move faster than in Halo and have charged abilities and specials on spawn. Bad players need to die for making mistakes, otherwise the game becomes absolutely terrible and unfulfilling for people who have a clue what they are doing.
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If you're in intended range, you'll hit all your shots where you're aiming. I used to think the same thing about "ghost bullets" but, it's just not the case.
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I think everyone here agree's we don't want to be cross mapped by hand cannon's, you know fighting at long range Scout vs HC we expect the scout to out damage the HC, what we do not want however is the HC to be doing literally nothing, i think all we are asking for here is a more accurate HC class with clearer gradient for damage fall off. This is essentially the same issue Bungie had with light levels and DPS previously where 1 light level literally meant a 30% damage output reduction and 30% less damage resistance, this is 1 foot outside defined range, bullet can go anywhere roll a dice, hit or miss, could represent anywhere between 20-25% of the DPS put out in a fight which depending on if it hits or not will determine the winner of the fight.
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Yes ghost bullets and the bloom that causes them need to be completely removed. Other primary classes can easily be buffed if Handcannons become too good. It would be nice to not have to always have range perks on a Handcannon. I would like to try out some other cool perks.
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Ghost bullets are understandable when damage fall off starts, but if there is no fall off it is legitimately wrong for my bullets to not land
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Signed to remove RNG on bullets. The damage fall off is enough to bring the weapon into check. I have lost many of gunfights due to this. Bullets should go exactly where the sights are.
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Signed in agreement to remove Bloom. I don't even use handcannons and I see how bullshit it is.
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They say it doesn't exist but in point blank with someone not spamming any shots, all of them miss!
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Ghost bullets don t exists
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They need to make them highly accurate at close-medium/close range and have it drop off from further ranges. They wanted hcs to be close range guns yet they sometimes miss in close range... like....why?
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Handcannons are still a competitive option for both PvE and PvP... it's annoying but not an issue.
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Agreed, RNG should never be the biggest deciding factor in where shots go. Especially with how far the range on them has been cut back it's ridiculous to add bloom on top of that.
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Hand cannons were OP in year one because of the lack of bloom. They suffer the most from being outside of effective range and that is its trade off for there massive damage, huge flinch, and dominance in the competitive scene. Eyauna is one of the best weapons in the game, why its base range is good. Get some range perks stop trying to make your weapon class dominant, and play the game.