So my biggest issue with the changes to these two pinical weapons is the changes to the perk Magnificent howl, because of that ill ill be using Greg the ogre for my examples, Ill also explain how this would effect PvP and how it doesn't unbalanced it and why it wouldn't be such a bad thing in PvP to use this idea. Ill will preface this with that I suffer from dyslexia but i will attempt to moderate my spelling to the best of my ability, but i will undoubtedly mess something up, I will leave a TL:DR at the bottom to summarise this as best i can. the Energy hand cannon im using alongside a 680 Not forgotten is a 680 Jack Queen King 3, JQK3 shares similar stats to Midnight coup while being an energy weapon so it was my go to choice for this because kinetic weapons have bonus damage compared to energy weapons but i will also list the rampage numbers from Midnight Coup because its its direct competitor in PvE right now damage Unbuffed on greg is [b]530 crit, 354 body[/b] for 180 rpm NF. and [b]627 crit and 391 body[/b] for 150 rpm JQK3. At the moment Magnificent Howl does crit damage [b]530, 530, 1218(814 Body)[/b] Repeating, thats around a [b]2.3x damage buff[/b] a Jack Queen King 3 archetype with Magnificent Howl would hit approximately [b]627, 627, 1564 repeating[/b] Midnight Coup crits hits [b]658, Rampage x1 788, x2 929, x3 1091[/b] The reason Magnificent Howl is so useful in PvE is because it rewards you for constantly critting meaning on big bosses its actually a viable weapon to DPS when you run out of ammo, which can be extremely clutch in a mode like gambit if you've expended your ammo. Now why is this such a problem with the suggested change? The suggested change is to make it so Magnificent howl only grants bonus BODY shot damage meaning to use it in PVE im forced to aim for the body every 3rd shot to get the following numbers approximate, [b]627, 627, 899[/b] [b]"But MORAY why is that a problem?"[/b] well its already fallen behind midnight Coup for trash clearing and now you're forced to aim for the body to do far lower DPS and even then linking DMG's comment [url=https://twitter.com/A_dmg04/status/1121540121755471874] The change to Magnificent Howl prevents 2tap kills. Ex: Players could get 2 headshots on one enemy to proc Magnificent Howl, and then defeat another in just 2 headshots.(#DmgTweet)[/url] this means Magnificent Howl is no longer a 2.3x Multiplier, for it to not two tap a 150 rpm Hand cannon which does 43 to the body would have to do less than 91 damage on a body shot meaning the multiplier for Magnificent Howl is now under 2.1x as anything even slightly above 2.1x could Two shot body shot a 0 resilience player, so what does that mean for us in PvE? it means the new damage numbers on Greg in PvE for Crit Crit Body are going to be approximately, [b]627, 627, 801[/b] repeating its not that much lower but because you're FORCED to hit that body shot to maintain that small edge of bonus damage you have to intentionally aim at the head after the buff is about to end to shoot two more headshots to keep it chaining it opposed to what you currently do is just shoot their head to maintain it. My Proposed change is to make it so that Magnificent howl functions exactly the same as it does right now by giving you bonus crit damage and being able to chain the perk with those crits in PvE until the target dies and it resets the perk like it currently does, with the exact same modifier of approximately 2.3x, which would let it excel as a PvE weapon. Now before you crucify me and say [b]"BUT THAT WOULD BREAK THE CRUCIBLE"[/b] It wouldn't actually, Just listen Currently as 180s they deal [b]57 57 131/88[/b] as their optimal TTK at 0.67, as 150s with my suggested change they would Deal, [b]68 68 156/98[/b] as their optimal TTK at 0.80 this is the same suggested TTK as they're implying for a 3 tap kill this just extends the 3rd shot range to a huge number without actually changing any numbers (#ttk) Now you'll notice the 2.3x multiplier would make the mythical Howl 2 tap a thing again, which im my opinion is not, and has never been an issue, its such an uncommon feat right now that the same situation that is currently required to activated it would still be required after it is changed to a 150 rpm hand cannon, the rare TTK rng would be Crit Crit/Body Body for [b]156 156/98 98[/b], the chance of this activating is slim. The real purpose behind Magnificent howl with this change would be to Shutdown roaming supers and be able to secure the 3 tap kill at an extended range, with a body shot or a headshot, with damage numbers this big it doesn't change the normal TTK, but it massively increases the TTK on something like Spectral blades, being able to hit 2 headshots on a roaming super and hit them with two more would deal along the lines of **38 38 86 86** repeating meaning a Guardian with 182-204 HP would die in 4 shots out of their roaming super, this adds an extremely powerful useful niche to the weapon on top of being incredibly consistent at 3 tapping normal guardians (#shutdown) I think this initial change lowers the power of the weapons by enough to make them fair in PvP without removing there ability to be good in PvE, bungie has shown us in the past that they can change PvP and PvE weapons differently with instances like wardcliff coil, but i think in pvp these weapons become lackluster without having something more than a glorified jade rabbit perk that requires more effort to activate yet does less, by giving them the ability to kill supers they fill a niche we're missing for the most part right now, if there's issues with the perk activating more often than it currently does they can always change it separately without altering it in pve, by toning down its damage to be more inline but i doubt that would be an issue, as the activation method is exactly the same with this change but slower. [b]TL;DR[/b]: the proposed changes seek to fix an issue (#DmgTweet) that isn't running rampant while completely removing the weapons usefulness outside of PvP, my proposed suggestion lets the weapon remain useful and strong in PvE while the RPM and TTK (#ttk) are changed to bring them inline with other weapons which creates a better balance while also filling the niche of super killer in PvP (#shutdown). I hope that before they put this nerf live they take some serious consideration with what they are doing, and actually have real people test it rather than the same play testers who made this weeks Nine bounty. Thank you for reading my post, any constructive criticism or alternative suggestions are welcomed and have a good day guardians.