With the recent NF literally everybody now has this great weapon.
I honestly don't thinks it's O.P or to amazing.
It's the other pulse rifle archetypes that need work. The red death/nerwins mercy types.
As it stands the low rate of fire pulse(spare change) rifles are the only primary gun in the game that can two hit. Although, this cane only be accomplished if every single bullet in the burst is a critical hit. This is a hard feat with the flinching high rate of fire guns that now run the show. If you fail to land all critical hits than it takes three bursts to kill. Just like every other type in the game.
Every pulse rifle now takes only 3 shots to kill.
This is a problem. If you can kill with only three shots with the fastest firing pulse rifle then why would you use any other?
As its stands the biggest gap is between the red death types and the grasp if malok types.
Let's face it pulse rifles like red death or nerwins mercy aren't at all a wise choice to use. You can buy a hawksaw and outplay any of those guns. With a faster time to kill.
So how would we fix this?
How about we buff red death to a two headshot kill? No, it was already nerfed from that to its current state. Plus if we did that it would make pulse rifle like the spare change or the messenger useless unless we make them a one shot kill, but that would be o.p.
So were stuck with nerfs...
[b]1st[/b]. I believe the only way to balance pulse rifles is the keep red death types exactly were they are. A 3 body shot kill.
[b]2nd[/b]. Pulse rifles like hawksaw should be changed to a 4 body shot kill or 3 head shot kill, but not all shots need to be critical hits. only 10-11 out of the twelve.
[b]3rd[/b]. pulse rifles like the grasp of Malok are tricky there is so little wiggle room with them. But the only sensible thing I can think to do with them is to change them from a 3 head shot kill to a 4 headshot kill with every round requiring a critical hit. Then change them to a 5 body shot kill.
I hate nerfs but the only way to not nerfs these is to buff others, then they become to powerful. Then you might say, " why not just increase the armor we have and buff everything else too. " but then it's just the exact same as nerfing, just with extra steps. I'll compare it to a game show. If everyone gets a question right and they all get 4 points added to there score. then they are still in the same place before the question Was asked. It's a waste of time and effort to add the 4 points to everyone's bored.
Tldr: Logical Pulse rifle changes. (just read number 1-3)
EDIT: After thought and testing I believe that if you absolutely think have 3 different rate of fire pulse rides that can all kill in 3 hits. Then the only way to make other pulse rifles like the red death or sparchange viable is to increase the stability within the burst between shots well giving it a small rang increase.
This would still allow all pulse rifles to kill in 3 shots.
EDIT 2: since people see to not get which pulse rifles belong to which archetypes ill explain it.
[u]lowest rate of fire:[/u] sparchange, messenger
[u]medium/low rate of fire[/u]: red death, nerwins mercy, the raid one.
[u]medium/high rate of fire[/u]: hawksaw, surous pdx 45, bad juju
[u]highest rate of fire [/u]: grasp of malok, the ones from the old raids.
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I've used pulse rifles since year 1 and honestly, each archetype has it's own role. High impact ones are for dealing the most damage if you can remain accurate. Medium impact ones are for a mix of damage, accuracy, and a slightly high rof. Low impact ones are for accuracy and a high rof. How the roles are supposed to work are that the High Impacts are for advanced pulse rifle users imo, they deal the most damage but have a lot of kick. Medium Impacts are moreso of a weapon that anyone can use, they share about 4/5 the damage of high impacts while maintaining their accuracy. Low Impacts are for people who are new to pulse rifles since they have very little recoil and a high rof, perfect for spraying and praying. Currently, the high impacts deal around 34 damage w/ headseeker(only high impacts I keep so idk the standard headshot damage anymore), mediums seem to deal about 28 headshot damage, and low impacts like my standard grasp I believe deals 23-24? DPS wise, the only pulse rifles I use anymore are grasp and bad juju. While I've always hated using low impacts, the only way to counter a grasp is to use a grasp right now. The only way to fix pulse rifles is to bring them back to how they were near the end of year 1. They'd have to buff other weapon types also because then the pulses would be way too op... but they already need to buff every weapon type. They said "every weapon will have it's season," what weapon season are we in right now? None of the weapons are OP, grasp is trash...its just the top dog in the trashbin.
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I personally think the difference between pulses should be more about range. Everyone tries to balance them without taking range into account. The low and lowest rof pulses should be more effective at longer ranges and should be able to challenge scouts without making them obsolete. The higher rof pulses seem to be fine where they are now as mid to close range weapons.
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Edited by High Charity: 6/30/2016 1:50:52 AMFirst: you cant use half-logic. You say highest impact pulse rifles are 2 burst but functionally 3 (as ecery ahit needs to land crit to be a 2) and then in the same breath say Malok type needs work because it takes three bursts. While leaving out if [i]every single shot lands critical[/i] and are functionally four. Second: make lowest RoF reliably 2 burst, medium a 2 if every shot lands critical, and leave the other two as they are.
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Edited by Gratefulzilla : 6/30/2016 1:46:17 AMEdit: seems like the answer lies in accuracy and stability. High RoF should be the least accurate and stable and the lowest RoF the most.
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Edited by TrulyDontCare: 6/28/2016 6:11:11 PMIf they just make the mid impact pulse rifles good again, I'd be happy. (but not as insanely powerful as they were, obviously). I got an incredible Final Duty from Variks, but the archetype sucks right now. I put it in the vault, just in case they buff them again. It'll be a beast if those guns become useful again.
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NTTE is a pretty good choice. My favourite when in the crucible.
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Edited by Luxie: 6/28/2016 2:18:34 PMI still use nirwen's mercy, I think it has a great ttk.
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There needs to be an increase in damage, not stability.
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F Nerfs and those calling for them
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Red death isn't suppose to kill as fast as the other, do the others heal you upon kill? No? Didn't think so, pulse rifles are fine, stop asking for more nerfs
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Nerfs will always hurt the game. Nerfs help no one
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More than half the community.... just arrogant...
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I say quit f'n with stuff so the game doesn't break any more so if you want to nerf stuff I say take a mydol, a tampon, STFU. Thank you.
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No!!! Just -blam!-ing stop! You people are worse than Jehovas witnesses. Just stop and leave us alone! No more -blam!-ing nerf posts!!
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I like this. And something similar for hand cannons
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I think instead of all the changes. Just make the lowest rate of fire pulse a 4 head 2 body shot for a kill. As for red death 5 head 1 body for kill.l As for the GoM well 8 hs and 2 body or 9hs and 1 body
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I have 2 one with a great roll (Cb, Pb & glass half full) but Personally I prefer my Nirwen's Mercy over it.
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Edited by Nightstalker: 6/28/2016 4:27:22 AMI miss my red death. Favourite pulse. #BuffRDRange
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OP please add to the main message: Red Death is a medium rate of fire pulse. People seem to forget this. It should never have two shot. Not before and not now.
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Hopscotch Pilgrim used to two shot.
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Just give the slower ones an obvious range boost, and a little stability as well. Mold them into more of a medium-long range weapon-type.
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Red Death and those in its archetype should be returned to their former glory, a 2 shot kill that rewarded skilled players who were able to land all their shots on target. I'm fine with Malok and Hawksaw archetypes where they currently are, however an argument could be made to adjust Malok. We need buffs, nerfs of any kind will only exasperate the problem.
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They are not in the business of fixing broken weapons. Look at the high impact AR buff. You see lots more of them? They just have left lots of weapons weak and the game really favors spam the trigger weapons now. Just use what you enjoy and let who ever wants to chase meta chase the damn thing.
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Wasn't the same nerf that happened to Red Death happened to ALL pulse rifles at the same time?
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Nirwen, Villany are all fine ...I find I can kill and be killed with a wild range of weapons. I pretty much feel comfortable using any weapon, except hand cannons. I think folks that beat me with hand cannons are very skilled. My kd is around 1.5, I kill and get killed around 10 - 15 times per game. I find that I die when I take unnecessary risks, or risks beyond my skill level; play outside my style, which is mid-range; use the wrong weapon for my play style; do something stupid such as drift into a sniper lane, or the other player is simply better than me.
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There's another point that everyone is missing here. Let's start with Grasp of Malok. It's OP only in the hands of a skilled user. My GoM can mever, ever be considered OP. But in the hands of a really good player? 'OMG nerf this' posts will start flying. That's the way it's always been. The same theory applies to all weapon archetypes, as well as classes and abilities. That being said, I think we've hit the butter zone as far as time to kill in the crucible is concerned. I feel that in the past, ttk was way too quick; Destiny is a game with much diversity in weapons and abilities, less than a second ttk really takes the shine off of that diversity. However, any longer and it becomes a yawn fest. IMO we count our wins and cut our losses, and leave everything where it lays now.